No the wouldn't. I don't know where Ford is w/ this issue. Somewhere in mid 2005 there was rumors spread over the internet and here that spark plugs where breaking off in the head. We're talking as little as 4?,000 miles. We discussed it in depth and got know. So around 18k miles at the time I pulled my spark plugs and checked them. My plugs had started rusting where the groundsheild and thread body meet. This is where the spark plug breaks. I pulled my wifes spark plugs in her 04 f150 and there was a lot of rust on her groundshield. We took both truck to dealership and they changed plugs under warranty. At this time Ford was putting out the bullentine. Before this it was just a rumore. We had the new plugs put in. I ended up trading my 05 f150 for my 04 SD. Not because of the spark plugs but cause I was bit by the superduty bug. At the time a solution that seemed to work was pulling the plugs and cleaning them. I just change them. I would stupid to put a plug back in and it fail and have to redo the job.

 

Wait, I thought the contention was "my motor will out pull your motor", not which total powertrain package is the best.

That's whats really being argued. The engine only begins the equation, it doesn't end it. Yes, I could use a pneumatic impact gun and outpull your V10. All it needs is the right gear reduction. It might only pull the load @ 12 inches per hour, but it will out pull you.

The V10s peak HP & TQ is right around 4500rpm. It's ok till about 5K and goes right down the toilet after that. That curve starts out at pretty much nothing and doesn't get moving till about 2.5K rpm or so.

The diesels torque is available almost as soon as you step on the pedal and stays pretty flat almost all the way through it's power band, which tops out at around 3K rpm - 3.5K rpm.

What this means in the real world is that the diesel is going to pull stronger from a standstill than the gasser will, unless you are willing to run WOT everytime you step on the gas. Since no one with any sense does, the diesel is going to out pull you unitll you start building up some rpm, and speed.

In the real world again the diesel is going to be towing down the highway at legal speeds pretty much right smack in the middle of its peak power band, while the V10 is going to be a good couple K rpm below it. Of course you could always drop a gear and crank up your rpm, maintain your speed and scream along at 4500 rpm. That would be fun. Or you could stay in high gear increase, your speed till you're at 4500 rpm, and get arrested for doing 30 over the speed limit. Numbers just pulled out of my butt since I don't feel like doing the calculations which require your final drive ratio in your transmission, the gear ratio in your axle, and the diameter of your tires. ALL of which determine who pulls better, not just the engine.


The rpm argument doesn't hold up. The gasser NEEDS 4500 rpm to makes it power. The diesel doesn't. It doesn't make the gasser better able to pull a hill. You're going to drop a gear to get that rpm, and drop your top speed in the process. The diesel will do the same thing. Drop a gear, stay in his power band (at much lower rpm) and do the same thing. BOTH of them depend heavily on gearing, both in the transmission and rear end, to do their jobs. The difference is the diesel gets its peak performance at a much more comfortable and equipment friendly rpm then the gas engine.

If the gas engine was really the better power package for every day towing then every semi truck on the planet would be sporting a giant gas engine under the hood.

Bah. This really is a stupid argument anyway. There are so many variables involved you can go back and forth all day. "His 3V V10 with 4.30s will out pull your 6.4 all day". "Ah, but my 6.4 with 4.88s will tear you in two"! On and on...

 

No, it won't...Believe what you'd like, but I see them struggling when they come through here heading to Cali, or wherever they're going. A V10 is a 5.4 with 2 extra cylinders on it. Then they added another 2000lbs over the weight of an F150 which takes away any gains from doing it. Chip it and make a whopping 30hp for $500.00+, which isn't cost effective either...It's worth it for me to do it.

My PSD will eat ANY stock V10 on the planet. Period.

Like my new signature, Bill?

 

From 2005-mid 2008 the 5.4's had an issue with the plugs not wanting to come out and the electrode shield (2-piece plug) would come off while removing them and drop into the cylinder. It was a huge PITA in the beginning. Anyway, they have removal tools now (still a PITA) and sell various aftermarket 1-piece plugs. My F150's didn't last long enough to necessitate a plug removal.

 

Actually most diesels are at a disadvantage in sled pulls. Since traction is not all that great performance in those events rely HEAVILY on wheel speed, something diesels are not incredibly good at. Gas engines on the other hand can be made to crank out some rpm relatively easy. Again, lots of variables. Diesels can be made to perform but gassers are easier and cheaper.

 

Him and I aren't talking about a sled pull. We're talking about normal, day to day load them up and roll situations.

 

Once the V10 owners figured out after the 7.3 the diesels started making a lot more power, but they had failed to name the thread 7.3 vs V10 and named it V10 vs PSD, they started using gearing and calculators in an attempt to gain an advantage, but you summed it up nicely a few posts above. I cruise along at 1900RPM's smack in the middle of my powerband while the V10 screams along in theirs, or lugs along BELOW it until they downshift to scream some more.

Bill, show me a stock F250 with a V10 rated for 650lb/ft of torque and I'll leave you alone.

 

Not sure who the "him" is, but what I was commenting on was the, believability if you will, of someones claim of using his V10 to trounce varies diesels at a truck pull.

 

Sure, but the V10 owner point always was, that if you are buying truck to make it Garage Queen and only push it outside on weekends for washing and than push it back, than spending extra few thousands for diesel option really makes no sense.
I give them that.

 

Yep, I agree completely.

 

I get what you're saying but that logic can apply to just about any vehicle. If you're only going to push your mustang out...yadayadaya, then spending the money makes no sense. Buy a bike or take a bus.

Diesel makes sense when you are going to tow and tow heavy. Makes MOST sense when you are going to tow heavy and tow a lot. If you don't intend to then from a financial stand point it doesn't make any sense. The fuel savings (if any) over gas don't add up. Maintenance savings don't add up. The fact is the average driver will not drive enough, haul heavy enough, or even own the vehicle LONG enough for any diesel savings factors to be an issue. Not even the vaunted longevity of diesel engines come into play for the average user. People just don't keep vehicles long enough for it to be a factor. The average person keeps their vehicle an average of 7 years before swapping it out. Even if a person put on 24,000 miles a year, double the average, most gassers are still doing quite well at that mileage.

I bought a V10 because I knew I would only be an occasional tower and would not tow all that heavy BUT, on a couple occasions I towed heavy enough to know that the V10 is not the engine for the job if your are going to do it consistently.

I bought an F-450 because my next purchase will be a fifth wheel toy hauler that will have an average rolling weight of around 14-15K, but has a GVWR of 18K. I want a truck that I know can haul that max, flat or uphill, and do it at a comfortable rpm which means a more comfortable me and passengers. The V10 is NOT that engine no matter how you want to spin it.

I mentioned earlier on, I have a V10, a 6.0, and now a 6.4. The diesels are by FAR the better towing package.

 

Prepare for the onslaught of V10 owners to say "We never said the PSD wasn't better for towing, we're only saying a V10 is CAPABLE of doing the same thing". (To which us PSD owners say a 4.0 Ranger will tow 20k on level ground, albeit not very fast, or comfortably...kinda' like a V10 in the hills with 14k behind it) It will never end. Welcome to Groundhog Day... Unless of course, you want to sit on the fence now and say your V10 feels the same as your 6.4 PSD towing 14k...

 

FYI -Mercedes is offering diesel option on some models for no extra cost and in the past the option would cost $900
Don't know why Ford is making such a big deal of it. Or maybe they sell V10 below cost to get rid of spark spitters?

 

I'll say it right now, a PSD will pull more then a V10, but a V10 still will comfortably pull most loads anyone will every have. But when PSD's owners start talking about V10's blowing plugs, making them sound out to be nothing but POS's, that's just dumb. I know a couple of former 6.0 owners that won't buy Fords again because of those motors.

 

Whats so bad about running 4500 RPM?

30 over will get you in all kinds of trouble. Thats why I try to keep it to 19 over or less.





Name one thing that a PSD can pull that a V10 can't.