Gas vs PSD
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
That's not the only test that has shown the v10 loses more power than the psd. And look at the highways, if the highway with the city driving was 60 mph, and the pure highway was 70 with a mountain pass, I would think that is possible.
Come on, when you guys are faced with pure hard facts, you still won't agree. LOL If only more v10 guys would agree to a pull off.
Come on, when you guys are faced with pure hard facts, you still won't agree. LOL If only more v10 guys would agree to a pull off.
I have not heard of a single stock 6.4 ever getting anywhere NEAR 19MPG highway, not in this forum, not in any diesel or truck related forum. People will fully deletes usually get close, but almost never 19 or more.
On a serious note though, 400EXs are pretty quick but still can be pretty easily controlled. They don't hold a candle to the new 450 based quads of course though.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Same truck in every other way, but 12 more HP WILL give higher RWHP numbers. There is no way around it.
THE DYNO
The diesel truck is rated at 350hp and 650tq. The V10 is rated at 362hp and 457tq. Dyno tests were conducted on a Mustang Dynomometer.
Diesel truck:
290hp @ 2969 RPM at the rear wheels
516tq @ 2814 RPM at the rear wheels
V10 truck:
223hp @ 4032 RPM at the rear wheels
316tq @ 3458 RPM at the rear wheels
Bull crap! The PI 2V on a dyno that reads low can make that. That number is a lie!
THE MPG
City traffic:
Diesel truck - 18.28 mpg
V10 truck - 8.95 mpg
There is no way that the 6.4 could get 18.28 city, and under the same driving with the same truck a V10 would only get 8.95.
Just try and find a stock 6.4 that gets 18+ city!
THE DRAGSTRIP
Average of 7 runs:
Diesel - 16.0 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~83mph
V10 - 17.4 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~76mph
I can run a faster time than that in my 2V. I will post up a time slip proving it as soon as I get one.
If the PSD is so much better, why does it need made up numbers to prove it?
THE DYNO
The diesel truck is rated at 350hp and 650tq. The V10 is rated at 362hp and 457tq. Dyno tests were conducted on a Mustang Dynomometer.
Diesel truck:
290hp @ 2969 RPM at the rear wheels
516tq @ 2814 RPM at the rear wheels
V10 truck:
223hp @ 4032 RPM at the rear wheels
316tq @ 3458 RPM at the rear wheels
Bull crap! The PI 2V on a dyno that reads low can make that. That number is a lie!
THE MPG
City traffic:
Diesel truck - 18.28 mpg
V10 truck - 8.95 mpg
There is no way that the 6.4 could get 18.28 city, and under the same driving with the same truck a V10 would only get 8.95.
Just try and find a stock 6.4 that gets 18+ city!
THE DRAGSTRIP
Average of 7 runs:
Diesel - 16.0 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~83mph
V10 - 17.4 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~76mph
I can run a faster time than that in my 2V. I will post up a time slip proving it as soon as I get one.
If the PSD is so much better, why does it need made up numbers to prove it?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
That is a long drive for both of us, though I might be in coos bay Oregon at the end of the month. Is there a place close to you an coos bay that has a nice pull?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
When you are faced with plain as day bias, you still refuse to recognize it. I bet if I showed an article from Gasoline Engines Kick *** Monthly showing the V10 at an advantage over the PSD you would call BS on it.
I have not heard of a single stock 6.4 ever getting anywhere NEAR 19MPG highway, not in this forum, not in any diesel or truck related forum. People will fully deletes usually get close, but almost never 19 or more.
One of my friends had a 400EX, he used to always tell me how it was so much faster then my old XR200, always thought it was funny that I could almost always keep up with him On a serious note though, 400EXs are pretty quick but still can be pretty easily controlled. They don't hold a candle to the new 450 based quads of course though.
I have not heard of a single stock 6.4 ever getting anywhere NEAR 19MPG highway, not in this forum, not in any diesel or truck related forum. People will fully deletes usually get close, but almost never 19 or more.
One of my friends had a 400EX, he used to always tell me how it was so much faster then my old XR200, always thought it was funny that I could almost always keep up with him
On a serious note though, 400EXs are pretty quick but still can be pretty easily controlled. They don't hold a candle to the new 450 based quads of course though.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 843
Likes: 6
From: Jessup, PA
No problem...you don't know any better, so we understand...
The PSD makes more power and scares V10 owners
The PSD gets better mileage
The PSD makes V10 owners vehemently defend their V10 purchase
The PSD owner gets more tail than the V10 owner
You asked for the high points...but there are many many more.
The PSD makes more power and scares V10 owners
The PSD gets better mileage
The PSD makes V10 owners vehemently defend their V10 purchase
The PSD owner gets more tail than the V10 owner
You asked for the high points...but there are many many more.
You have to remember - he is only 16 or 17 years old.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
Ok, a quick Google search, here it is, from Diesel Power Mag:
2008 Ford Super Duty F-250 - Diesel vs. Gas - Diesel Power Magazine
THE TRUCKS
Both 2008 Ford Superduty 4x4, short box, extended cab, automatic transmissions. The V10 gas powered truck had a 4.30 axle (considered the best for towing/hauling with a V10), and the diesel truck had a 3.73 axle which is not only very common, but the only axle available with the Duramax diesel, and the standard axle with the Cummins since 2003.
THE PRICES
The diesel truck stickered for $51,040, and the V10 powered truck stickered for $45,055. Both were similarly equipped, though not identical. That makes the diesel truck ~$6000 more.
THE WEIGHTS
The diesel truck weighed in at 7710#, the V10 truck weighed in at 7050#.
THE DYNO
The diesel truck is rated at 350hp and 650tq. The V10 is rated at 362hp and 457tq. Dyno tests were conducted on a Mustang Dynomometer.
Diesel truck:
290hp @ 2969 RPM at the rear wheels
516tq @ 2814 RPM at the rear wheels
V10 truck:
223hp @ 4032 RPM at the rear wheels
316tq @ 3458 RPM at the rear wheels
THE MPG
City traffic:
Diesel truck - 18.28 mpg
V10 truck - 8.95 mpg
Highway unloaded (Grapevine pass):
Diesel truck - 19.08 mpg
V10 truck - 11.94 mpg
Highway (Highway #99) and city runaround:
Diesel truck - 19.72 mpg
V10 truck - 9.88 mpg
Highway #99 and Grapevine pass, cruise control:
Diesel truck (had transmission in bed) - 15.74 mpg
V10 truck (no load) - 12.55 mpg
Test average:
Diesel truck (unloaded) - 339 miles/17.62 gallons = 19.27 mpg
Diesel truck (including towing) - 865.9 miles/51.17 gallons = 16.92 mpg
**Diesel average - 1205.5 miles/68.79 gallons = 17.52 mpg
V10 truck (unloaded) 694.6miles/66.97gal = 10.37 mpg
THE TOWING
Load = 8500# (Jeep on 3000# trailer)
15-65mph:
Diesel truck - 22.39 sec avg
V10 truck - 29.71 sec avg
THE DRAGSTRIP
Average of 7 runs:
Diesel - 16.0 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~83mph
V10 - 17.4 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~76mph
THE PAYOFF
Cost of diesel option over the V10:
$6895 (diesel option) - $600 (V10 option) = $6295 cost for diesel (with fuel at $3.00/gallon, this $6295/3 = 2098.3 gallons of fuel)
12,000 miles per year/10.37 mpg = 1157.2 gallons of gasoline used/year
12,000 miles per year/19.27 mpg = 622.7 gallons of diesel used/year
Diesel = 534.5 less gallons of fuel used per year
2098.3 gallons/534.5 gallons = 3.93 years to break even
2008 Ford Super Duty F-250 - Diesel vs. Gas - Diesel Power Magazine
THE TRUCKS
Both 2008 Ford Superduty 4x4, short box, extended cab, automatic transmissions. The V10 gas powered truck had a 4.30 axle (considered the best for towing/hauling with a V10), and the diesel truck had a 3.73 axle which is not only very common, but the only axle available with the Duramax diesel, and the standard axle with the Cummins since 2003.
THE PRICES
The diesel truck stickered for $51,040, and the V10 powered truck stickered for $45,055. Both were similarly equipped, though not identical. That makes the diesel truck ~$6000 more.
THE WEIGHTS
The diesel truck weighed in at 7710#, the V10 truck weighed in at 7050#.
THE DYNO
The diesel truck is rated at 350hp and 650tq. The V10 is rated at 362hp and 457tq. Dyno tests were conducted on a Mustang Dynomometer.
Diesel truck:
290hp @ 2969 RPM at the rear wheels
516tq @ 2814 RPM at the rear wheels
V10 truck:
223hp @ 4032 RPM at the rear wheels
316tq @ 3458 RPM at the rear wheels
THE MPG
City traffic:
Diesel truck - 18.28 mpg
V10 truck - 8.95 mpg
Highway unloaded (Grapevine pass):
Diesel truck - 19.08 mpg
V10 truck - 11.94 mpg
Highway (Highway #99) and city runaround:
Diesel truck - 19.72 mpg
V10 truck - 9.88 mpg
Highway #99 and Grapevine pass, cruise control:
Diesel truck (had transmission in bed) - 15.74 mpg
V10 truck (no load) - 12.55 mpg
Test average:
Diesel truck (unloaded) - 339 miles/17.62 gallons = 19.27 mpg
Diesel truck (including towing) - 865.9 miles/51.17 gallons = 16.92 mpg
**Diesel average - 1205.5 miles/68.79 gallons = 17.52 mpg
V10 truck (unloaded) 694.6miles/66.97gal = 10.37 mpg
THE TOWING
Load = 8500# (Jeep on 3000# trailer)
15-65mph:
Diesel truck - 22.39 sec avg
V10 truck - 29.71 sec avg
THE DRAGSTRIP
Average of 7 runs:
Diesel - 16.0 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~83mph
V10 - 17.4 sec in the 1/4 mile @ ~76mph
THE PAYOFF
Cost of diesel option over the V10:
$6895 (diesel option) - $600 (V10 option) = $6295 cost for diesel (with fuel at $3.00/gallon, this $6295/3 = 2098.3 gallons of fuel)
12,000 miles per year/10.37 mpg = 1157.2 gallons of gasoline used/year
12,000 miles per year/19.27 mpg = 622.7 gallons of diesel used/year
Diesel = 534.5 less gallons of fuel used per year
2098.3 gallons/534.5 gallons = 3.93 years to break even
That or they tested the V10 in 4x4 and the PSD in 4x2. That is the same mpg I get running winter fuel and with my front hubs locked. Additionally, the mpg is clearly skewed because few people get worse mpg than me, and I'm still getting better than them.
As for the price thing, seriously... just go to the Ford web site truck builder and click on the engine choice. A drop down box appears and says the V10 costs $695 extra and the PSD costs $9325; that's a $8630 difference. And this number (which is "similarly equipped, though not identical") is what they base their economics on. (Yes, my number is baised on the 2010 MY, but I doubt the PSD jumped $2600 in 2 years).
You want me to believe this silly mag over Ford's own website? Really? Seriously?
If they can't even get a simple thing like the price of the PSD right, you want me to believe anything they spew out. I'm mean if they can't click on Ford's website like I did to get the actual price of the PSD, you want me to believe they can run a dyno? I'm surprised they even did the division right.
Edit: I fail to see how this proves the V10 powertrain consumer more power than the PSD. This article proves nothing to me other than mags will distort the truth and that people will believe it then post it up on the internet as truth.
If you want to prove the V10 power train consumes more power than the PSD, show me the parts that make it different and explain why it will consume more power.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 2
If it was a 2V, the sticker wouldn't be $45K. The article also states that both trucks were 2008's. I know a 6.4 has more power than my 6.8. But I gave up the extra torque for reliability, and the fact that my cab will never need to come off for any engine repair. If I was trading every 4 years, the cab off thing wouldn't matter, but after spending 100 grand on my truck, I'd like to keep it longer. The V10 pulls fine, I've been loaded to 30,000# with it a few times. I'm not concerned with the fuel mileage, it makes me money. Reliability was key for me after owning a 6.0, and closing the hood of a 6.4 3 seconds after I opened it. I now have exactly what I wanted. A beautiful work truck that runs as good as it looks.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
If it was a 2V, the sticker wouldn't be $45K. The article also states that both trucks were 2008's. I know a 6.4 has more power than my 6.8. But I gave up the extra torque for reliability, and the fact that my cab will never need to come off for any engine repair. If I was trading every 4 years, the cab off thing wouldn't matter, but after spending 100 grand on my truck, I'd like to keep it longer. The V10 pulls fine, I've been loaded to 30,000# with it a few times. I'm not concerned with the fuel mileage, it makes me money. Reliability was key for me after owning a 6.0, and closing the hood of a 6.4 3 seconds after I opened it. I now have exactly what I wanted. A beautiful work truck that runs as good as it looks.
As for the V10 having less power, I agree for overall power (i.e. torque and hp delivery). But when 2 engines show up with similar hp, the same tranny, and similar drivetrains, they should show similar hp when dyno tested if the dyno tests were done correctly. Otherwise I've had civic's that have put down more hp than my V10, and I doubt that.
Edit: I too have the exact truck I need. I looked at the 6.4, saw the sticker price and walked away. I was even more convinced when I saw the PSD actually lost towing capacity because of it's added weight.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
I don't buy this part of the test either. Johnny has a 3v with a 4.10 and he wasn't this far behind Tom's 6.4 with a 3.73 from 0-60 even though Johnny had over 2k lbs more than him. Put a 4.30 behind it AND go from a rolling start with the same weight and it loses time?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
I don't buy this part of the test either. Johnny has a 3v with a 4.10 and he wasn't this far behind Tom's 6.4 with a 3.73 from 0-60 even though Johnny had over 2k lbs more than him. Put a 4.30 behind it AND go from a rolling start with the same weight and it loses time?
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
You just showed how narrow or retarded your thought process is. Did I say I ****ed my truck, or that it helped me get more tail in any way? No. I said PSD OWNERS get more tail. If you don't, well, it sucks to be you. And I'll bet you really ARE *desperate*...You just didn't know how to spell it before.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
We already went over those particular Diesel power results a while ago. Its plainly obvious that the numbers were just made up. A stock 6.4 getting 18MPG city, and some how gets better mileage with a mix of city and highway driving then just straight highway?
My buddy has a 6.4, and they love it to death, but towing their two jeeps down to Moab netted them 6-8 MPG. I'm supposed to believe Diesel Power got 17 towing?
Wasn't it you (or was that ChargersFan) that was arguing that dyno/MPG/etc...results from a potentially biased sourced - DIESEL Power magazine should not be trusted?
Here is a fairly independent review: Brute Force . They got 15 unloaded, 9 towing - and they absolutely loved the truck and its towing ability. That alone make its pretty obvious Diesel Power was fluffing the numbers.
My buddy has a 6.4, and they love it to death, but towing their two jeeps down to Moab netted them 6-8 MPG. I'm supposed to believe Diesel Power got 17 towing?
Wasn't it you (or was that ChargersFan) that was arguing that dyno/MPG/etc...results from a potentially biased sourced - DIESEL Power magazine should not be trusted?
Here is a fairly independent review: Brute Force . They got 15 unloaded, 9 towing - and they absolutely loved the truck and its towing ability. That alone make its pretty obvious Diesel Power was fluffing the numbers.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
Nah, I'm not hating. I'm just saying that mag article is full of BS. They clearly made false assumptions on things as basic as the price. Instead of clicking on Ford's webpage to find out exactly how much a PSD costs, they used this "similarly equipped, though not identical" pricing scheme to diminish the true cost savings of the V10.
I have also been pretty good about keeping track of my mpg, and I have the same truck they claim to be testing (only difference is mine is 2009) and drive in probably the worst conditions you can drive a truck in (worst for mpg and still be on the road) and get better mpg than do.
I have no problem saying the PSD is better than the V10 in many ways, but when it comes to "bending" the truth as they have done, I just don't see any reason to use those numbers as facts. I would say the PSD will win in most of those categories, but not by the margins they are claiming.
IMO, it's pretty clear that they figured out it would take a long time to get a PSD to payback it's initial investment. So they probably "tweeked" the numbers until they go what they wanted. Instead of using the real cost difference between the V10 and the PSD, they used this "similarly equipped, though not identical" BS, they then decided the mpg was to high for the V10, so redid the tests with the front hubs locked and driving it like they stole it knocking about 1-2 mpg off (those are the numbers I get with my front hubs locked in before my truck was broke in). I'm NOT saying this is what they did, but it is an example of how easy it is to skew these numbers. Really they should have used Rush's point that the PSD will have some return when you sell the truck, that would have bolstered their point much better.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Oh, you need some help? 276/14.226 = 19.401mpg. My truck is stock, and those are highway miles with little stop and go out to a jobsite, and back.
I check my tire pressure every 2-3 days and run them at 70psi. I also use cruise control which makes a HUGE difference.