Gas vs PSD
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
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From: Rhode Island
That's my point exactly. Ford could have used any engine they wanted to in their motorhomes and they chose the v10. They could have used any engine they wanted to in the 650/750 and they chose a cummins, cat and v10 over the 6.0/6.4. That would be like Chevy using the duramax in their silverado but using a cummins or psd in their topkick. Or isuzu having a joint venture with sterling and putting a cat engine in it.
Also, GMC has Isuzu engines available in their Topkick series.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 2
Towing companies are having a tough time with their 6.4's. Probably the worst thing, is that they are still repeatedly blowing radiators. one guy just spent $1,993 on a new radiator from ford (installed) Many companies who are loyal to Ford are switching to V10's (me included) to avoid all the problems with these engines (6.0/6.4). Just wait until you until start seeing emmision problems out of warranty on these 6.4's. Hold onto your wallets. Ford has noticed the shift to V10's in the cab chassis market. They will sell a bunch of F650's with the V10 gassers. Why would Ford want to use any IH engine in a 650 after all the problems they had with IH? They wanted out of IH engines, period. The last good PSD was the 7.3. The 6.7 shows potential, we'll see in a few years.
PS. SOME GREAT READING HERE: Here is a 6.4/V10 topic on the leading tow truck forum: http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/86137 Read through the Ford forum if you want to read about 6.0/6.4 problems. You won't find much there bad about V10's though.
PS. SOME GREAT READING HERE: Here is a 6.4/V10 topic on the leading tow truck forum: http://tow411.yuku.com/topic/86137 Read through the Ford forum if you want to read about 6.0/6.4 problems. You won't find much there bad about V10's though.
Last edited by LSchicago2; Jul 10, 2010 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Add a link
Super Moderator
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From: Isanti, MN
I met a guy last weekend at a 4th of July party with an '06 F350 with the 6.0L PSD. When asked he told me that he had over 100,000 miles on it with NO problems to speak of. He couldn't be happier with it. I would argue that he had a GOOD 6.0L.
If I had your bad experience with the 6.0 I may share your opinion. But to state that they are all junk because some have bad luck with them is a bit presumptive. I've met LOTS of people who have had great luck with their 6.0/6.4L trucks.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
That's what I was saying. GM uses the Isuzu duramax in their light duty trucks and they also use the Isuzu duramax in their medium duty trucks. That shows me that they have enough faith in their light duty engine to use it in their medium duty trucks. They also use Allison transmissions in both their light duty and medium duty trucks.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
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That's what I was saying. GM uses the Isuzu duramax in their light duty trucks and they also use the Isuzu duramax in their medium duty trucks. That shows me that they have enough faith in their light duty engine to use it in their medium duty trucks. They also use Allison transmissions in both their light duty and medium duty trucks.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
True. But while they were being made did they not use the duramax and allison combo? That is the point I am trying to make. Chevy and Isuzu trusted their light duty combo enough to use it in their medium duty. Ford and Navi do not.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
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Why don't you come down to THIS THREAD? You'll find a few "good" 6.4L PSDs there.
I met a guy last weekend at a 4th of July party with an '06 F350 with the 6.0L PSD. When asked he told me that he had over 100,000 miles on it with NO problems to speak of. He couldn't be happier with it. I would argue that he had a GOOD 6.0L.
If I had your bad experience with the 6.0 I may share your opinion. But to state that they are all junk because some have bad luck with them is a bit presumptive. I've met LOTS of people who have had great luck with their 6.0/6.4L trucks.
I met a guy last weekend at a 4th of July party with an '06 F350 with the 6.0L PSD. When asked he told me that he had over 100,000 miles on it with NO problems to speak of. He couldn't be happier with it. I would argue that he had a GOOD 6.0L.
If I had your bad experience with the 6.0 I may share your opinion. But to state that they are all junk because some have bad luck with them is a bit presumptive. I've met LOTS of people who have had great luck with their 6.0/6.4L trucks.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
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That is right, but Chevy used a different Duramax in the class 6-7 (true medium duty class) that is the 7.8 liter in line 6 diesel built in Japan. Ford and Navistar have used the v8 diesels the the medium dutys, Ford used the 7.3 and 6.0, Nav used the 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4. Ford will no longer install an IH engine for obvious reasons.
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Postmaster
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From: Rogersville, TN
That is right, but Chevy used a different Duramax in the class 6-7 (true medium duty class) that is the 7.8 liter in line 6 diesel built in Japan. Ford and Navistar have used the v8 diesels the the medium dutys, Ford used the 7.3 and 6.0, Nav used the 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4. Ford will no longer install an IH engine for obvious reasons.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
I don't think it really matters honestly. The PowerStroke has a hurt reputation right now - no medium duty buyer is going to want it, and Ford is trying to distance itself as far as they can from Navistar engines.
And actually the Isuzu Straight 6 used in the Class 6/7 Topkicks is not branded as a Duramax. Its branded as an Isuzu 6H (which as mentioned is made in Japan, vs. America for the Duramax V8) and you can only have the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx series transmissions behind it. The Allison 2xxx and 3xxx are entirely different beasts compared to the Allison 1000 used behind the Duramax V8. The Allison 1000 is like an econo-car transmission strength wise compared to the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx.
So I'll ask you this, Why doesn't GM use the same engine in the light duty trucks as their medium duty class 6/7? Certainly looks bad for them..
And actually the Isuzu Straight 6 used in the Class 6/7 Topkicks is not branded as a Duramax. Its branded as an Isuzu 6H (which as mentioned is made in Japan, vs. America for the Duramax V8) and you can only have the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx series transmissions behind it. The Allison 2xxx and 3xxx are entirely different beasts compared to the Allison 1000 used behind the Duramax V8. The Allison 1000 is like an econo-car transmission strength wise compared to the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx.
So I'll ask you this, Why doesn't GM use the same engine in the light duty trucks as their medium duty class 6/7? Certainly looks bad for them..
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
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The 7.8 is still made by Isuzu and ist still a duramax though. Same maker, same brand. It just doesn't look good when Ford uses a Navi engine and Ford tranny in their light duty trucks and Ford joint ventures with Navi and puts a cummins and allison in their medium duty trucks.
Super Moderator
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From: Isanti, MN
Originally Posted by LSchicago2
The only one (on the forum you posted) over 50,000 miles with out trouble admits going through radiators every 35K. $2,000 radiator every 35,000 miles? no thanks. These are pickups, quite a bit different from trucks used in my industry. Most guys on the towing forum drive pretty sane, but the trucks are still pushed every day. Just wait until the average 6.4 has over 100K miles I think that thread will be different. The tow truck industry's trucks are used very hard. The tread I posted represents my industry's change to V10's from the 6.4. One guy has been at the dealer 21 times for in engine problems in 55,000 miles. That reminds me of my 6.0. There will be good and bad trucks for every variation made. It no longer makes sense for many in my industry to stay with diesels in the Fords.
And as I've stated dozens of times in this thread that I was looking for a V10 when I bought this truck, for the same reasons you bought yours.
I was just attempting to point out the majority of 6.0 and 6.4L owners are perfectly happy with their trucks. This is why I strongly disagree with the notion that the 6.0/6.4L engines are bad engines.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
you can only have the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx series transmissions behind it. The Allison 2xxx and 3xxx are entirely different beasts compared to the Allison 1000 used behind the Duramax V8. The Allison 1000 is like an econo-car transmission strength wise compared to the Allison 2xxx and 3xxx.
So I'll ask you this, Why doesn't GM use the same engine in the light duty trucks as their medium duty class 6/7? Certainly looks bad for them..
So I'll ask you this, Why doesn't GM use the same engine in the light duty trucks as their medium duty class 6/7? Certainly looks bad for them..
And why wouldn't you blame them? Because you said they are junk. My point exactly. Ford didn't trust them enough to use them in the medium duty truck(or motorhome), so why should I trust one to sit in my driveway?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
You are still missing my point. GM uses an Isuzu engine and Allison tranny in their light duty trucks and they used an Isuzu engine and Allison tranny in their medium duty trucks. That means they must trust those brands pretty good. Ford uses a Navi engine in their light duty trucks but a Cummins, Cat and V10 in the medium duty trucks. That tells me Ford thinks the Cummins 6.7, Cat and V10 engines are all better than anything Navi makes. That's not too big of an edorsement for the 6.0 or 6.4 if you ask me. There isn't a better endorsement out there for a product than for your competitor to use it instead of their own.
My point about Chevy is that the Isuzu Diesel and the Allison used in their 6/7 series trucks are true medium duty components. So they obviously don't trust their light duty Duramax V8 and Allison 1000 transmissions to be used in their medium duty trucks.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
The 6.4 is not Ford's motor, its Navistar's. It is not that Ford doesn't trust it - its that they don't want it. They want nothing to do with Navistar motors anymore because of an ongoing lawsuit over 6.0 warranty claim issues (basically Navistar did not want to pay for 6.0 Warranty work).
My point about Chevy is that the Isuzu Diesel and the Allison used in their 6/7 series trucks are true medium duty components. So they obviously don't trust their light duty Duramax V8 and Allison 1000 transmissions to be used in their medium duty trucks.
My point about Chevy is that the Isuzu Diesel and the Allison used in their 6/7 series trucks are true medium duty components. So they obviously don't trust their light duty Duramax V8 and Allison 1000 transmissions to be used in their medium duty trucks.
When the 6.0 was on its way out Ford brought a lawsuit against Navi, quit using their engines in the medium duty trucks and then said they were going to make their own psd when their contract with Navi ran out(because of poor quality), that's not giving me a reason to jump up and go buy the new 6.4 when it came out.