But you have to understand the reason we originally got together and pulled! We were going for a simple comparison and to have fun, not to have a competition. All of us came up there with a different objective in mind.

Mine was to prove that you don't need the most expensive or powerful engine to get the job done. I was, and still am, tired of those insisting that their way is the ONLY way, and that others who chose differently must be foolish for making that decision.

My truck may have had the most power, but all of the other vehicles involved got the job done. All of the trucks that came out were able to start 10,000 lbs of trailer on a 15% grade from a standing start. That includes a 3V 4.6L, 3V 5.4L, 2V 6.8L, 7.3L PSD, 6.0L PSD, and my 6.4L PSD. The F150s, Mike's V10, and Andrew's 7.3L truck were all overloaded by at least 1,000 lbs and they STILL did it.

So it wasn't impressive what my truck did. Nor was it very impressive what Matt's 6.0L truck did. Impressive was the overloaded V10, 7.3L, and F150s. THAT was the point I was trying to make.

 

It's a manual, I think the engine block says 250/500 or something close to that, with a 2 stage programmer, bigger injectors, air intake, and bigger exhaust, not sure if 4 or 5 inch. So would imagine closer to 350/600. All I know is it pulls my camper up hills at 7,000 feet at 70 without any problems, in 100 degree heat, with a/c on, though it is running 1,200 degrees EGTs the entire time.

I would put his truck up with a stock 1 ton crew cab long bed 6.0 or 6.4. Don't think it will necessarily win, but it will keep up. This is based on how it performs against my built 6.0 (which it keeps up, though a lot smokier LOL)

Anyways, this "my johnson is longer than yours" TALK is kind of boring me... LOL So lets get another run together. I am game, anyone else in for a Northwest run?

 

My point was to prove to you and a couple of others that the "math" you all had been doing did not translate to the real world. So I loaded up my 7.3 and 5.4 to prove you all wrong. I ended up being waaaaay wrong on that one lol. When I compared the "math" to my real world results, it matched up the way it should have.

My other point was to prove that the 5.4 is a lot better than most give it credit for and that with the right gearing it can tow with a more powerful engine with the "wrong" gearing. You can't open a question about the 5.4 without 20 people saying it doesn't even belong in a truck, isn't good for anything more than hauling groceries, is the secretary/office guys truck, etc. I think I proved that it is more than capable of towing heavy loads.

If it's a 94 it should have 215/425. Mine is a 97 and it had a few minor changes from the 94.5-96 and it says 225/425. With those mods it should do a lot better than stock. Mine is a manual, 4.10 gears and bone stock and it won't outpull my 5.4 in a shoot out. It pulls the same loads a lot easier(less downshifting, lower rpms, better mpg's,etc), but it doesn't get up to speed nearly as quickly.

 

Yeah, I agree and in no way was I trying to dog on your test. After I reread what I wrote, it was definitely worded more harsh than I was trying to be. I think it is awesome ya'll got together, and would like a more fair test. I also argued the dieselpowermag article that put a srw v10 3/4 ton against a psd 1 ton dually was not a good test. I wish it were possible we could get all three versions of v10 and the 7.3/6.0/6.4 psds all together at once, with comparable trims (though can be geared any way you want). If I got my cake and were able to eat it too, I would throw in a 6.7 psd and the new 6.2 gas.

At the end of the day, here are MY priorities:
1) fuel range - v10 rolls over, no competition
2) pulling in hot weather at 7k feet - some argument, but my opinion, psd.
3) initial cost - difference is less than people think, but v10 wins
4) ongoing costs - psd fuel cost obviously less, if maintenance done at home, overall fuel and maintenance is less than v10
5) reliability - I agree v10 out of the box is more reliable, so chalk one up for the v10.

That is my order, other people can be wrong if they want!!!! hahahahaha

 

I am going off memory, been over a year since I looked at the sticker under his hood. I just remember being surprised it was so high, was expecting closer to the 225/425, but I swear it is more. I think the manuals in those years were rated higher than autos.

When he last towed my camper, he had the same mods minus the injectors. Those came after he kept letting the fuel run out in one tank before switching over to the other at 70 mph. He can build a truck, I didn't say he was smart.... hehehe

 

It should pull every bit as hard, if not harder than my 2V with that done.
If I put the same amount of money into my V10 it would about be a tie, I think.

Stock vs stock there is no way that a 7.3 could keep up.

 

Kind of, he did the work himself and owns a diesel shop, he pays wholesale. So the exhaust, programmer and air intake were about $600 total. The injectors were a necessary repair, and typical after 15 years. He got remanufactured bigger injectors for less than the price of stock injectors. So, I will give you a $1,000 budget and see where you are at.

Is Ohio really the only place where we can get a few trucks together?

 

$1000 would get me a custom tune, Y pipe, air intake, free flowing muffler and headers.

Going by the dyno sheets posted in other threads that would get me close to what the 3V 6.8 makes, so going by your HP/TQ for the 7.3 that would just about be a tie.

 

Doesn't mean much on paper... LOL I just know his pulls fairly similar to mine, and more stable. Those old school 1 tons rode rough but doesn't even squat when my toy hauler is hooked up, where mine squats like 8 inches.

 

So your telling me I can double the amount of air going into the engine and put less fuel in?

going up hill take more power. TO make more power you need more fuel and air to produce more expansion during combustion (or different gears, but we are not talking changing gears, just boost).

I'm not a diesel engineer or anything, but I have my doubts about that a diesel uses less fuel when under max boost going up a hill than on flat ground at minimal boost.

The guy that has to drain his fuel out sounds a bit wierd, maybe a bad tune, or some other issue IMO. You should not have flooding problems on any stock truck.

Yes, I've lived here just under a year and the football games are insane. Something I'll never follow lol

 

There are 3 versions of the V10

1. Yes... mpg for the V10 is quite sad indeed
2. hot weather doesn't matter, elevation does though; the turbo will win because of elevation.
3. Hummm... not sure what you're talking about not that big of a difference. Ford wanted just under $8k more for the 6.4 in my truck, the offered an extra $1k in rebates on the PSD making it just under $7k. That was Z-plan pricing too.
4. This is debatable depending on the driving conditions. But I assume you fall into the "normal" driving conditions and the PSD would be a winner there.
5. Well at least 1 PSD owner realizes the gasser is a simpler and more reliable engine.

On a different note:

I would be more than happy to join a pullout. Unfortunately my family commitments durign the weekend will not let me take an entire day away, so it would have to be relatively close.

 

There is a turbo 2V V10 over in the excursion forum. He claims to have improved his mpg too on the highway... not sure but whatever.

This is the problem I had with the used PSD's. Most of them cost more with 50-100k miles than I paid for my truck new. You paid $24k for your truck used (I'm not picking on you, just an example of what I ran across) which was typical for a 3-5 year old PSD with about 75k miles on it. I got a brand new truck for $28k; it could have been down to $26k if I took the rebates instead of 0% APR.

Yes, I would have preferred to have a PSD, but I knew the V10 could do what I needed it to. And IMO, the truck is going to fall apart long before either the V10 or the PSD (at least from normal ware). So in my purchase, I wanted as new of a truck as possible so I could keep it as long as possible without having any major issues (I'm talking truck related, not engine). I was more worried about truck issues because I've been nickled and dimed before and it bothers me so I don't want to end up with a truck I'm making $500 a month payments on, and having to fix all the time because it's 8 years old. To me it was more important to have a truck that I knew would last until I could pay it off. And paying $40k for a brand new PSD was not an option; I just won't tie up that much money in a truck if I don't have to. I was already more than annoyed at putting $30k into a truck

 

lol...let us know how the reality works out for you when you realize the dyno sheets put out by the CAI and Exhaust manufacturers were all lies.

Caveat: If anyone is going to claim large gains from a CAI, stop now unless it's a diesel you slapped it on along with bigger injectors and a tune. Same with the exhaust, and I still doubt those claims, even for the diesels. All an exhaust does is make a diesel obnoxiously loud.

 

I agree that any of the "bolt ons" aren't going to do anything major for any engine. However, many V10 owners have reported getting about 1mpg better with a CAI. The intake appears a bit restrictive, and while you may not release an additional 50 ponies, you may be able to free up a tiny bit of extra power just where you need it to. However, Bill listed a large nubmer of items along with a tune, I don't think a 15% increase in power is that unimaginable. There are engines out there (like the PSD) that get far more than that just from a tune.

The list Bill has above, would probably put him close to the 3V from what I've heard. He still wouldn't have the top end power the 3V's have and his power curve would look quite a bit different, but peak wise the numbers get close.

The same gains are not true for the 3V though. I haven't heard of anyone that got anything out of changing the exhaust system on a 3V. One guy even tried on 3 different types, got with in 2hp and 3lb-ft for the dyno on all 4 systems (3 aftermarket and the stock). The intake is more or less the same though between the 2V and 3V, so there is a tiny bit of power to be had there. And since you won't be changing as many itmes, the tune will not have as great of an effect.

 

Apparently you didn't get the sarcasm in my "voice" lol. I was poking fun at the diesel guys (of which I am also included) for saying that the v10 will use more gas going up a hill because it has to turn more rpm's, but they forget that when you go from no boost to boost you use quite a bit more fuel too.

For the OBS trucks the manual and auto had the same power. If his valve cover said anything higher than than 215(or 225)/425 then that would lead me to think one of two things. Either he switched valve covers with a SD 7.3 that was rated for more power or the engine had been swapped with one from a SD.