Gas vs PSD
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
As for the Mustang vs F150 4.6L's...."all sorts of different goodies", as in the intake manifold and exhaust manifolds? Those 4.6l's are identical in every way from the cylinder heads to the bottom rail of the engine block.
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
I know of several all over the country that actually KNOW how the control system works.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
For starters, my 03 Mustang with a 4.6l was a 4 valve setup...that's NEVER been in an F150...
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
The GT was a 2V from '96-04.
Hint....you're NOT gonna "school" me on modulars-don't even try.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Yes, I had an 03 SVT. You said the 4.6 in the F150 was "identical". I just said there are many variants. the compression is different on the trucks too with it running something like 9:1 for low end torque, while the mustangs was like 9.6:1 for top end due to the lighter weight of the car. This is the PSD vs V10 thread though. If you'd like to discuss Mustangs (I've owned 6 of them, and should be getting my 2011 in a week) PM me and I'll school you.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
And you're not school me on Mustang's or sell me a tuner or a CAI either.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
Besides minor intake/exhaust difference, manufacturers can also artificially cripple gas engines (along with Diesels as well). Take the 2nd Gen 5.7 Hemi, it makes 390HP in the Ram 1500, 383HP in the 2500/3500. And in an Automatic Dodge Challenger that drops to 357.
You can do a lot with spark timing and fueling. Especially engines like the Gen 2 hemi that has 10.5:1 compression but runs less then optimal spark timing so it can run on low octane fuel.
Like I said a few thousand pages back in this thread, the only reason why a Diesel responds at all to a tuner is because of the turbo. If you have a Gas engine with a turbo that has an electronic VGT turbo or electronic waste gate then a tuner can give you similar gains as you could with a turbo diesel.
You can do a lot with spark timing and fueling. Especially engines like the Gen 2 hemi that has 10.5:1 compression but runs less then optimal spark timing so it can run on low octane fuel.
Like I said a few thousand pages back in this thread, the only reason why a Diesel responds at all to a tuner is because of the turbo. If you have a Gas engine with a turbo that has an electronic VGT turbo or electronic waste gate then a tuner can give you similar gains as you could with a turbo diesel.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Besides minor intake/exhaust difference, manufacturers can also artificially cripple gas engines (along with Diesels as well). Take the 2nd Gen 5.7 Hemi, it makes 390HP in the Ram 1500, 383HP in the 2500/3500. And in an Automatic Dodge Challenger that drops to 357.
You can do a lot with spark timing and fueling. Especially engines like the Gen 2 hemi that has 10.5:1 compression but runs less then optimal spark timing so it can run on low octane fuel.
Like I said a few thousand pages back in this thread, the only reason why a Diesel responds at all to a tuner is because of the turbo. If you have a Gas engine with a turbo that has an electronic VGT turbo or electronic waste gate then a tuner can give you similar gains as you could with a turbo diesel.
You can do a lot with spark timing and fueling. Especially engines like the Gen 2 hemi that has 10.5:1 compression but runs less then optimal spark timing so it can run on low octane fuel.
Like I said a few thousand pages back in this thread, the only reason why a Diesel responds at all to a tuner is because of the turbo. If you have a Gas engine with a turbo that has an electronic VGT turbo or electronic waste gate then a tuner can give you similar gains as you could with a turbo diesel.
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Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
A good custom tune will get you 20-25 RWHP alone.
Thats not true at all. They are the same.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
Yep, the turbo makes the difference...or a blower...slapping a tuner on a gasser, or a non-forced air induction engine isn't going to do squat...It may make a small but noticeable difference on something like a Mustang GT though because of the weight of the car. I said "MAY"...I don't know as I'd never waste the money on a chip again, and never needed to chip any of my Mustang's. I always had REAL work done on them, or left them stock.
Yes a turbo makes things much easier to pull power from.
while I agree, a chip is not worth the costs IMO, when combined with other after market things that do offer an improvement, they CAN have a small effect, but not if the engine and components around it were tuned well from the factory. While I like Ford, they are not Ferrari and don't spend as much time tuning there vehicles. If you don't believe me on the exhaust issue, take a look at the exhaust on a 2V V10 and 3V V10, they are dramatically different. I don't suppose Ford made that difference to possibly eek that extra 50 hp out of the engine?
For the most part I agree with you though. Even if I could get an extra 40 hp out of my truck by slapping these things on (which you won't get on the 3V), I wouldn't bother. 40 hp on a 365 hp engine won't do much, specially if it screws the power band up like most of these items will.
And I completely agree the only way to get any REAL power out of an N/A engine is to spend big bucks on it. You'll either be rebuilding the entire engine or boosting it.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
Actually lower compression generally results in lower power throughout the entire RPM range.
That is a common issue that a lot of guys who do big turbo builds have. They need to drop the compression to accommodate the boost, but if they drop it too much they'll lose low end power and suffer from excessive turbo lag.
That is a common issue that a lot of guys who do big turbo builds have. They need to drop the compression to accommodate the boost, but if they drop it too much they'll lose low end power and suffer from excessive turbo lag.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Same car, same day, same dyno.
Bone stock, exactly as it was when it left the dealership.
2011 Mustang GT 5.0L TVCT 4V/Auto.
Picked up 23 RWHP and 40 ft-lbs.
Tuning only, no other changes.
People that know what they're doing can get results that the cookie cutter "tooners" cannot.
JL
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
I have a dyno sheet in front of me right now from a good friend's car.
Same car, same day, same dyno.
Bone stock, exactly as it was when it left the dealership.
2001 Mustang GT 5.0L TVCT 4V/Auto.
Picked up 23 RWHP and 40 ft-lbs.
Tuning only, no other changes.
People that know what they're doing can get results that the cookie cutter "tooners" cannot.
JL
Same car, same day, same dyno.
Bone stock, exactly as it was when it left the dealership.
2001 Mustang GT 5.0L TVCT 4V/Auto.
Picked up 23 RWHP and 40 ft-lbs.
Tuning only, no other changes.
People that know what they're doing can get results that the cookie cutter "tooners" cannot.
JL
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 2
I could see a more aggressive tune working on a lightning, or a Mustang GT as the engines are already beefed somewhat. Putting on a stock 5.4 is useless though. Do you have before and after dyno slips on your V10? Not the manufacturer one...We both agree those are B.S. A changed shift pattern will make it *feel* like it's making more power, but the dyno's don't lie.
Diesel WINS!!
Diesel WINS!!
