It didn't make sense for Ford to install the 6.4 after the 6.0 fiasco, but they didn't have another diesel to use in the 2-5 trucks. The less they installed any IH engines the better, considering all the lawsuits between the companies. The 6.4 was only installed because the 6.7 Ford engine wasn't ready.

All of these things are why a lot of us former diesel owners now own V10's.

Back on topic, enough of the Maxipad talk, this is a Ford forum.

 

No, Ford did not drop the Navistar engines because they were junk, they dropped them because of the lawsuit(s) between Navistar and them. What is so hard to comprehend here? The lawsuit was brought about not because of the 6.0 reliability problems, but because Navistar refused to pay warranty claims on the 6.0 and said basically that it was Ford's problem, not theirs. Ford would probably still be using the 6.4/Next-Gen Navistar engine had Navistar agreed to take responsibility in the 6.0 warranty claims (and had they not started suing each other)

Ford wanted out of that very unhealthy relationship, and wanted to separate themselves from Navistar's engine division as much as possible. As LSchicago2 said; they already had other engines in the F-650/750 so that was the beginning in dropping Navistar engines. They had no other choice but to use the 6.4 in the F-250/550 range because their 6.7 wasn't ready and there was no other diesel powerful enough they could have used.

 

Yeah, but what brought about the lawsuit for all the warranty claims? Because the engines were junk lol. If there weren't reliability problems there wouldn't have been so many warranty claims to start with. Had the engine been reliable there would not have been a lawsuit and Ford would still be using Navi.

If you knew Ford was cutting ties with Navi, that the 6.4 was just a stop gap engine until they came out with something better and that they were just using it because they had to, would that give you enough confidence to go out and buy one? Not me. That's why the 7.3 will be the last diesel I own until Ford proves that the 6.7 is worth buying.

 

Tom, I think that thread you posted shows why so many of us won't ever buy a 6.0 or a 6.4. Almost all of them are "30k miles with no problems except an egr valve, except a few new radiators, except this, etc. BUT it was covered by warranty so no big deal." They have had more issues in 30k miles than my 5.0 has had in 217k and my 7.3 in 207k miles combined.

I also think it speaks to the reliability of the 6.0 when people are quoting 100k miles with no problems as proof of its durability. It's probably less than 1% that had major issues like LS had with his, but even the "good" ones seem to be in the shop all the time for minor issues(like the good 6.4's in that thread).

 

Ford VS Navistar?

 

Not necessarily Hijacked. When this thread was started it was Ford VS. Navistar. Ford V10 VS. Navistar PSD. THanks to the 6 liter Ford has remedied the problem (hopefully) with their own diesel. It seems most people who have been active in this tread are the 7.3 owners. No one really said the 7.3's were bad engines. I do get better highway mileage with my 03 F450 V10 than I did with my 2000 F450 PSD. Both had 4.88 gears. The V10 gets .5-.7 mpg better on the highway. The 7.3 won easily in city MPG though! I traded my 2000 F450 PSD with 112K on it because I wanted a super cab. It never had a engine problem. My 05 6.0 was at the dealer for engine issues at least 14 times that I count in 3 years, and between 20K-80K miles. I don't know what happened when they designed the 6.0 & 6.4, but it was downhill since the 7.3.

 

I would have no problem buying one. Its a good engine, and once they got out the Job 1 builds they have been very reliable. If Navistar International thinks its good enough to be used in their School Busses and Medium Duty trucks, its certainly good enough to be in my pickup.

Sorry but the 6.4 is nothing like the 6.0. The Job 1 (and some Job 2 I believe?) had radiator issues, but that has nothing to do with the engine. The radiator is a Ford sourced part - not Navistar. I haven't heard of very many if any at all EGR problems with the 6.4 either. I've seen occasional issues with turbo seals, but overall the 6.4 is much much more reliable then the 6.0, and can take far more abuse. I don't know why people keep lumping the 6.0 and 6.4 together.

Also don't know why nobody here seems to know how to use multi-quote?

 

Read here: 6.4 diesel or v-10 gas??? - * Ford - Chassis & Fuel - Tow411 - Message Board (Scroll down to statewide's post)You'll understand why I lump the 6.0 & 6.4 together.

 

I think it's because the 6.0L and 6.4L share the same basic architecture.

Most people don't think about the improvements made to the trouble spots of the 6.0L. The injection system is completely different, head bolts are larger, turbos are completely different, EGR system is different, etc. Virtually NONE of the problems that were common on the 6.0 occur on the 6.4L.

Here's a good slideshow that highlights the revisions made with the 6.4L:

http://www.backglass.org/duncan/ps64...4_overview.pdf

 

The 6.0 that Navi uses has less power than the Ford, doesn't have the emissions equipment and is a pretty darn good engine. I know several people that have the vt365 in International trucks with no problems. Which is probably why Navi didn't want to pay for problems that were caused by things Ford did to it after Navi sent it to them.

I have a friend that works in the shop at our Ford dealer here and they keep 6.0's and 6.4's in the shop all the time. The 6.4's are almost always because of a 10 cent o-ring that required the cab to be pulled and about a $1,000 labor bill.

I didn't use multi quote because my posts were about 2 hours apart and someone may have been replying to my first post while I was typing the second one. Some people whine if you edit a post while they are already replying to it and others whine when you post two replies in a row.

 

I've found that some people whine about pretty much anything...

 

There are many people on this very site that maintain fleets with the VT365 and many of them have the exact same issues the Ford 6.0 did. Ford didn't just take Navistar stock 6.0s and load their own tune onto them. The 300HP + tune was developed together between them. Navistar is the one who ultimately said yes our engine can handle this power.

Ford sells more trucks then anybody else, so of course they are going to have 6.0s and 6.4s in the shop. The amount of 7.3s left on the round is undoubtedly shrinking as many of them wear out(maybe not so much the engine, but the truck itself) and get sent to junkyards. 7.3s haven't been built in 7 years, so it only makes sense the Ford diesels you see in the shops will be 6.0s and 6.4s.

As far as pulling the cab, blame Ford for that one. The basic cab design has been the same since the Super Duty and really can't accommodate the larger heads/turbos of the new diesels. That is probably a good reason why the new 6.7 is a pushrod design - to conserve space vs. a taller OHC design.

 

I've heard all the horror stories about the 6.0 but I have yet to personally meet someone that has a bad experience with one. It's always "a friend of a friends, sisters, boyfriends, former roommate had a 6.0 that barely made it off the lot before it had to go to the shop."

It is also not true that "even the 'good' ones seem to be in the shop all the time for minor issues" like phillips91 said. Mine has been in the shop exactly twice in five and a half years, and one of those had nothing to do with the engine. The only thing that my 7.3 was able to accomplish that my 6.0 never has is get a ride from a tow truck. Based on all the other dudes driving around my small town with 6.0's, I didn't get a "good" 6.0, I got a "standard" 6.0. The 6.4's around here aren't any different in terms of reliability.

 

Out of 20-30 people I personally know that have had a 6.0L Truck/Excursion, etc-there are only 1-2 that have not been in the shop for Bad HPOP's, Bad FICM's, Bad headgaskets, Bad EGR valves, Bad EGR coolers, Bad turbos. Most recently was a repair on an F250 with 56K miles. Failed HPOP. Less than a month out of warranty based on date of purchase, and they had a bill of $2500 to replace it. It's totally random-one of the 2 that has never had a problem has a "100hp" tune on it,and pulls trailers all over the place running the dog crap out of it 24/7. It still has ALL of the original parts on it except for a 4" exhaust system. The remainder had nothing non-stock on their vehicles, yet had total hell with them constantly being back at the dealerships with repeat failures. Needless to say,very few of them have those money pits anymore-they got rid of them well before the warranty expired. I regularly see really nice 6.0L trucks on the side of the road with For Sale signs on them, and watch those trucks sit for months until the owner either gives up trying to sell the albatross, or trades it in taking a screwing on it in the process. Funny thing is-nearly all of the 6.0L trucks I see for sale have between 85-95K miles on them-the owners know what's gonna happen when their warranty expires.
JL

 

My cousin had one of the ones that had to be bought back. He couldn't drive it a week without it stalling, not starting and having to be towed. Go browse the 6.0 forum and see how many people have blown head gaskets, egr problems, turbo problems, etc. It's not just a friend of a friend of someone I used to know, etc. I agree with Johnny here. I don't personally know anyone that has a 6.0 that hasn't had it in the shop for engine issues. Not all of them are major, but for a new truck that costs what these things do, one time is one time too many.

You say that it's not true what I say that even the good ones see some shop time for the engine and then go on to say that yours is a good one but has been in the shop one time for the engine. Between my 7.3(207k miles), 5.4(38k miles) and 5.0(217k miles) they have seen the shop one time for engine issues(throttle position sensor).

It isn't just that the diesels that I see in the shop are 6.0's and 6.4's, it's that they are usually the only things in the shop. There are never f-150's, gasser SD's, Mustangs, or any other kind of car there with engine problems.