If you went back and checked Milehighhydroguys' experience with PSD he seemed to have had some very positive results..


Interesting material... looks like the guy has been doing some cutting and trying... Why don't you install yours and come back and tell us about it!

The last time I checked this wasn't a PSD forum, but your certainly welcome..maybe we could get you to move back with some of the rest of us IDIers'..sure love having less stuff under the hood specially plastic.....

 

Actually we seem to have stolen a few members from the powerstroke forum. There was a thread there called something like "duramax wiped by my powerstroke" and then he went on to explain his HHO contraption. Some of the members that were posting there have now ended up here and the other thread has not been updated for a few weeks now. This thread was started in response to the other one so we humble IDI guys could come up with ideas for our own trucks, but then it kind of got out of hand

 

Oh believe me i have looked at his post very carefully and thats why i found this guys info interesting.I actually have put one on my cousins PSD and he improved 1mpg exactly but it was a low cost 1st time test type generator.

And for the record i know this is the pre PSD(IDI) forum i even said that in my post but i seen a few psd'ers posting and i wanted to see what you guys thought.

Jason

 

Yes, I have a 6.0 and jumped over from the other thread so count me in that group. That being said, just remember that no single one of us is anywhere near as smart as all of us put together....

I had been thinking of the bubbler tank like that eBay link, letting the gas act like a coffee percolator to circulate the fluid. Instead of having the plates in a bath of electrolite I was thinking of the stacked plate design where the edges of the plates are sealed and the electrolite is contained inside the stack. I'm still working that one out, will post pics once I have it set.

 

budracer1,
Welcome to FTE and the IDI diesel forum.

When you say Power Stroke, there are 4 generations of that engine out there now.
1994 thru 1997 7.3 generation 1
1999 thru 2002 7.3 generation 2
6.0 generation 3
6.4 generation 4

Most IDI engines were originally naturally aspirated motors, most of them are still NA motors.
The turbo IDI is usually running under 10 PSI boost.
And there are no electronics of any kind on the IDI engine.

When you go to Power Strokes, the boost is usually over 15 PSI and chipped engines are getting up in the 30 PSI range boost wise.
Power Strokes are loaded with electronics, which is an understatement on the 6.0 and 6.4 motors.

The first thing that stands out in what I have said so far is the IDI NA motor compared to a Stroke running 15 PSI boost.
In round numbers, that Stroke at 14 PSI is taking in twice as much air as the NA IDI is, and is also injecting about 50% more fuel per power stroke.

The first logical thing that comes to mind is the amount of HHO that an IDI would need, is about 1/2 what a Stroke would need to see the same gains.

And I believe the 6.0 and 6.4 have O2 sensors, which throws an even bigger wrench in the cogs.

I have a rather radical IDI engine, running rather big boost numbers and lots of fuel when I stand on it.

So I am going for a HHO generator that can make big liter per minute numbers, which would probably be well suited for a second generation Stroke when I get it figured out.

I am over 4 liters per minute right now, and I am not going to waste my time mounting that on my truck.

6.9 liters displacement, /2 for a 4 cycle engine = 3.45 liter per revolution of the engine.
At 2000 RPM that turns into 6900 liter per minute.
At 14 PSI boost, you are now looking at 13800 liters per minute at 2000 RPM.
At 20 PSI that increases to 16560 liters per minute.

4 liters per minute added to 16556 liters of air per minute = .02416% HHO which is basically a trace gas.

That is the biggest reason I see that a Stroke would not benefit from his generator very much, the generator needs to output about 2.4 times as much HHO as an NA IDI would need to see the same HHO concentration in the cylinder.

In answer to the Lexan versus plexiglass question, Lexan costs four times as much as a same size plexiglass would.
Lexan is very hard to break unless it is very cold.

A 2 foot x 8 foot sheet 1/8" thick is over 100 dollars.
That is what the mole board on my snow plow is, I have broken it several times when the temp was well below zero is how I know it breaks when very cold.
Above 30 degrees, you can lay a sheet across two 2x4 boards and hit it with an 8 pound sledge hammer with almost no damage.

 

Dave thanks and you are way to smart.He expalined to me that reason it wouldnt work on the 7.3 psd is because of the way that the engine injects the diesel in 2 parts which is also over my head,i just took his word for it.Im not giving up though thats why i presented this to the gurus.

thanks for having me



Jason

 

Milehigh has a powerstroke and claims good results. Parkland was the one that started the thread on the late model 7.3 powerstroke forum. If its true than it could only be better with the IDIs.

My feeling is that this effect is based more on proximity of the fuel/air molecules to one another in the engine with the hydrogen being volatile enough to help the flame spread over larger gaps between molecules that might have otherwise not jumped across. In that respect, the volume of the chamber at TDC and the CR of the engine would play a role in this. Of course I have no way what so ever to provemy theory so thats all it is, a theory.

4 LPM!!! Dave, have you been holding out on us?? I don't remember you posting numbers like that before. I thinky I was able to pull off 1.5 with mine but the efficiency was dismal with wires melting and it was not safe to install in the truck. Working on a stacked plate design but work is piling up so my plates are on the shelf.

 

Wow Dave.....great explanation and Thank You for the lesson! Now I really feel like I'm wasting my time w/ my contraption! And yes you have been holding out on us......4lpm is great compared to my 1lpm and you have a similar design w/ the long plates if I remember correctly. Can you update us on your design mod's? I'm sure you have been busy, I've been swamped thankfully also. But my tests have been more melting wires than gas, so my unit is broken down right now for improvements.

 

someone can correct me if I am wrong but I dont know of powerstrokes injecting fuel in 2 parts. the duramax uses pilot injection that is two parts--small injection of fuel before the main injection. Thats what makes them quiet running. i am a mechanic but mainly gassers. still learning the diesels.

 

I think the 6.0 was the first powerstroke to use pilot injection.

 

Thanks for the input twtcad & lowell75, picking up new plates today ,checked connections ,they were no good,try again tonight with 1 tbls-1gal. i'll let you know resultes

 

Right now I am down to 1/16" between plates and up to 25 plates.
So my reaction area is 24 * 60 sq. in. for 1440 sq in reaction area.

I have more plates to add, but I am out of room in my 6" pipe.

If I remember right, you can get split shot injectors for the 7.3, and they were stock on the 6.0 and 6.4.
And yes that would have an effect also since the hydrogen would be gone before the main fuel charge hit the cylinder.

Another advantage for going old school on the engine.
For the 7.3 Power Stroke guys here, your biggest hurdle is the amount of air a Stroke ingests because of the high boost they run.

And for the 6.0 and 6.4 guys, you have a double hurdle because of the injection and amount of air.

 

Thanks for the update Dave......how do you have them wired and how many amps are you drawing?

 

I did a little checking on split shot injectors. they actually started using them in 1996 on California models. after 1998.5 you have to check your numbers on injectors to see if you have them. If it starts with an "S" then its a split shot injector. It is a 2 part injection but i dont think its quit like the pilot injection.

Dave, another thing to bring into the equation is the air fuel ratio. Gas= 14.7-1 diesel=around 300-1 I remember seeing it for hydrogen some were and it was real high. around 800-1200 to 1. also you are inducing pure oxygen not just more "air". that will help the burn proses also.

working on mine some (one of milehighs boxes) i moved the plate spacing to 1/16" and ran full 12V to every set of plates. I did not get good HHO but it was pulling 70 amps with straight water. going to try and run all 7 in series again to see if that works now.

 

Has anyone built for 24 volts yet? The diesel engine, with two batteries, would make this a possibility, wouldn't it?