Dougphysics,

I think there are two issues at work here:

1. This thread is rife with incorrect terminology. Accept it, we are not scientists.

2. You are painting our "little" thread with the same brush that you would use on the hundreds of other threads out there on the internet that are filled with all of the crap you talk about in your last post. No one here is expecting free energy. I have read some of those other threads and with my basic 10+ year old chemistry and physics knowledge I just shake my head. How these people can make some of the claims they do is just insanity. I wonder if they read their own information before they share it with the world? It's pretty basic, Energy In = Energy Out. Nothing special, nothing fancy and nothing magical. Energy is not "lost", it is just wasted. It's turned into something that is a byproduct of the reaction such as heat. Perhaps for reasons that this little humble group doesn't understand, some of those byproducts are actually helping us in out quest for more efficient burning of the fuel? Like I have said before, the math in our examples is very simple and we will easily be able to tell if we come out with a positive sum. Our goal is simple and instead of analyzing just the small parts of it (efficiency of the generators, is the Hydrogen or the Oxygen helping, etc) we need to look at the system as a whole and instead of energy, calculate if $ In = $ Out. I'm hoping that this equation does not balance.

I ran the numbers basically and I figured that we only needed to see an increase of .2MPG to make all of this worth while. Anything less than this and we are wasting our time.

 

This one is perfect! This is exactly what I was thinking we have been referring to all along!

Brown's Gas Oxyhydrogen Information

There is an image right near the top that has the molecules, it is exactly what we have all been talking about.

I was thinking though, it is possible to get "free" energy from all of this. What about using solar energy to charge batteries, use the batteries to run the generator and then use the, wait for it.........HHO (ha!) to run the engine. It's not really free but I don't need a gas station to get it.

Internal combustion without the emissions.

 

I think the consensus is that you want to turn the unit off at idle, and on under load/cruise.

With a computer controlled PWM and fuel system, it might help at idle. On an IDI, most likely it would suck way more energy than you'd get back from better combustion. Anyone else agree/disagree?

 

Batteries are too heavy if all you're going to do is crack water to get hydrogen ... what about using solar/wind/water/electric grid power to run a stationary (or perhaps on-board) electrolyzer and store the hydrogen & oxygen (in separate tanks) at moderate pressure and use that to supplement combustion? Yes I know "danger, danger, danger...", but with a really good (safe & inexpensive) design ...

 

I am still learning Diesels. only had mine a year now and have not messed with them that much before. On the new fords that have an EGR valve they run a throtle plate for say so it will suck in the exhaust gasses when the EGR valve opens.


Your idle is set with an adjustment screw on the pump. So if you get enough HHO in the system to raise the idle a lot you will have to adjust it down.

 

Do we have any lawyer out there.........

we need someone to write something like........

as far as this thread at Ford Truck Enthusiasts, 1948-2009 Ford F150, Super Duty & SUV owners community and information source. Covers F100, F-150, F250, Bronco, Ranger, Explorer, Expedition, Lighting, Escape and More is concerned let it be known that the use of the letters "HHO" stand for the way we separate hydrogen and oxygen from water. It is not intended to mean anything but. there for we do not want anyone to post anything about how HHO is not real, that we are wasting our time, you cant run a car on water or there is no such thing as free energy.

LOL can you tell iam not a lawyer????

 

That was an idea I had years ago when someone told me about the inefficiency of solar and wind power in charging an electric car.

I said who cares about efficiency rate when all that wind power is unused and that solar energy is just heating up a parking lot, or your car in it during the summer?

Why not put it to use making and storing Hydrogen to power the car, the house, or anything else on a cloudy, windless day?

And as for the storage capacity issue, just fuel up when you get home every night.

 

i have the same question.... im thinking it would require an adjustment of some sort

 

The alternators are very inefficient at low RPM and there may not be any gains at all with the generator connected.

Archangel,

wind and solar power may not be 99.99999999% efficient, but they are none the less free and abundant recources that are not use nearly enough. Storing the hydrogen is a problem though. Indeed this is more than anything else holding the technology back right now.

Come to think of it, our diesels are maybe 35% efficient at the crank (ideally higher, but this is reality), and at least 20% of that is lost getting the power to the road. This does not include the losses in oil extraction, refining and distribution.

If it comes down to it, why not run a seperate deep cycle battery to power the HHO generator? The cost of charging a deep cycle would be less that $0.25 in most places.

 

That is exactly what I was saying.

In a perfect world you have 2 battery packs, (obviously this would be larg, heavy and expensive but I'm talking perfect world) and while you leave one at home being charged by your wind turbine and solar panels you are driving with the other one. Switch them out every day for more "free" energy. On the vehicle you would probably only use solar panels to trickle charge your batteries since using wind for power would cause drag and probably work out to an energy loss overall. Unless of course you had a turbine that only engauged when you were slowing down.......

Ok, wow, way off topic.....but still fun!

 

You know what the worst part about solar and wind energy are........... greedy people. I have looked into both for my house. For solar totally off grid with a full electric house about $120000 for the setup. That more then a few years of electric bills. wind-- I cant remember the size of the unit but they say it gets most people down to $15 a month electric bill (what was it to start who knows). About $30000. They say you have to be in it for the long run investment but I don't think I will live that long.

Yea your right. way off topic

On topic---today on comcast.net videos(don't know how to link there videos) they have a nice video about a car run completely off water. I wont explain just go see it.

 

Your numbers are out of date. Less than half that cost could get you a solar collector big enough to run your house and a couple of cars. If your utility company is forced to buy back surplus power (and most are these days) that you generate than they in effect become your battery bank while at the same time driving your cost down even more because the small amounts of extra power you make will help pay down your investment. Only catch is that no one is building affordable electric cars that are still fast enough and safe enough to meet our minimum needs. Only option is to convert your own. Or wait another few years and I'll build one for you

If may be off topic but it is a worthy topic none the less. You can't get much more energy independant than generating your own power at home.


Now back ON topic, I have my supply of lye and even some distilled water from an old science kit. Can't wait to get into some trouble this weekend.....

 

Even on the IDI, the govenor is going to maintain the RPM at idle speed.
So if adding H+H+O gas increases the idle speed, the fuel will be reduced dropping the RPM back to 650.

The only time this would not be true, is if you were adding enough H+H+O that the engine became a runaway.

Sorta like when you rip a big gas line out of the ground while digging.
The Natural gas goes in the engine with the air, so the engine continues to run even with the diesel fuel shut off.

If the concentration is high enough, catastrophic engine failure at some RPM well above what the engine can handle is the result.

If your HHO generator is used at idle, the alternator is probably not keeping up with the amperage draw, which may leave you with a low battery unless you drive before shutting the engine down.

That fact I have already proven while testing my generator.

That is also one of the reasons I am going for a multi stage generator so I can drop the generator amp draw to a very low level while idling.

After I experienced low batteries, I did a little testing in the amp draw area, 2000 RPM with a 150 amp alternator provides enough charge to run all my lights, the generator and maintain a full charge in the truck batteries with the generator drawing 50 amps.

Given the extra cost of multi stage, I think a micro switch and relay that cuts the gas off at idle is more cost effective unless there is some reason your engine has to idle a lot.

 

I doubt my SMACK booster will cause a runaway unless my skills at building my first one far exceeds the skill and experience of those building them to date.

And I doubt I'll be idling long enough to draw down the batteries as I shut it down at long red lights.

BTW, shutting down at red lights, taking off dead slow and coasting to a stop has raised my city mileage up from 14 mpg to 18 mpg and add the fact that I'm nolonger going over 55 on the freeway has raised my freeway mileage from 18 mpg to 24 mpg even though I can smell and see that my truck has an issue with burning all the fuel it injects.

I can't wait to see what the SMACK booster will do to my mileage!

A 25% increase will get me up to 30 MPG!

 

Amen brother