Originally Posted by tgreening

FINALLY, someone else realizes how stupid the whole V10 vs argument is. People in here pretend they're arguing motors when in reality they are arguing drive train PACKAGES. Completely different ball game.

Originally Posted by SoCalSuperDuty03

When I haven't been at FTE for a while, I don't realize how much I miss it! This place is soooo entertaining!

Hey plgebbia, I used to have a really nice white '96 CC 7.3 truck like yours, except mine was a 4R100 truck. My little girl (she is a 12 year old gearhead!) still calls it 'The Early Superduty'. I would have kept that thing forever, but I got talked out of it by one of my friends. I still love those '92 and later trucks, and if I ever find another as clean as mine was I am going to buy it.

Originally Posted by David N.

Why should an engine that is capable of turning 5000 RPM be handicapped by forcing it to run the same gear as an engine than can turn only 3500?

I would argue that torque per RPM is the exact opposite of what you should be looking for. Certainly some minimum amount of torque is required at a sufficiently low enough RPM to start the load moving, and the more you have at that low speed, the quicker you can start. But after that, torque times RPM is what is most beneficial.

Below is a link to an article (or a copy of it) I read a few years ago that I think does a good job of putting everything together, and explaining why, ultimately, horsepower is what counts. Its long, and uses a few exaggerated-for-clarity examples, but is worth your time to read it. As a teaser, how does a power plant putting out 2,600 ft-lbs of torque sound? Read below to see how it might be completely useless in a truck, or even an average sized car.

http://www.4x4abc.com/jeep101/torque.html

Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy

You boyz are forgetting that the 2005 2V V10 Ex that I drive has the exact same freaking drivetrain that the post 1999 7.3L has except for final gearing.

Why would I want to limit myself to an RPM range that is outside the design parameters that the engineers at Ford (i.e. not you) designed the V10 to run at?

The design paramters are DIFFERENT but the end result is the SAME...power to move a load.

Why is it so freaking foregin for you smoke heads to understand that RPMs in a V10 is not struggling?...the SOHC V10 makes her power ABOVE 2000RPMs and up to ~4200...the power band is flat from 2000-4000 RPMs and is at or above 400 ft-lbs...

Here is a graph that shows the curves...it is not completely correct since it doesn't show the curves crossing at 5250rpms...the HP and Trq curves are depicted separately in this graph but it shows the curve...notice how the HP is continually CLIMBING up the RPM band and the trq is pretty flat above 2000 rpms out to 4000



This motor is DESIGNED to REV.

I could ask the question a different way than you with your smoke filled mentality...why don't we run the tow off at above 3000RPMs? Ford gave you gears in your tranny for a reason...if my V10 uses what the engineers gave me how is that a disadvantage...


Gearing IS the way motors make things work...plain and simple. Do you think modern tractor trailers grunt 80,000#'s up 7% grades with pure diesel power...really?

If we restrict things to one to one ratio how is that real world? We don't buy motors we buy TRUCKS that are wrapped AROUND the motor to do a given job...the overall TRUCK is what moves the package and that includes suspension to support the tongue weight and items inside the truck in addtion to the trailer and wind load...

Are you guys serious in your arguments or just looking to argue?

I drive a truck in real life towing a 9000# trailer all over the country in all kinds of terrain and weather...to me what is important that I carry my family safely inside the truck while the truck does what she does best...PULL the load under all conditions and gets us to our destination...the 4.30 geared 2V V10 in my Ex has not found a hill or road that she can't easily pull using what the Ford engineers gave her mated to the engine...plain and simple.

I guess you can't get to near 700 pages on a thread unless there are enough people that like to hear themselves talk about non-factual stuff...the thing I know is that this real-life truck does real-life stuff very well...if I wanted to sit at home and argue with a bunch of smokeheads...I guess that would be something different...I just don't have time to sit around and argue as I am still planning our July 3 week towing trek that will include the Rockies yet again...oh dear...will my little ole V10 have enough HP/Trq to make it to the top of a Rocky mountain pass ladened to 17,000#'s combined?...yeah right...life is too short guys...

Joe.

Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn

Yes some of us got this a long time ago. To really get the full benefit out of the diesel engine, you need a tranny with about 10 gears since the power band, torque, and RPM limits are much narrower than a gas engine.

Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy

When was the last time you saw just a PSD or V10 pulling a trailer? We buy TRUCKS around our motors and that includes transmissions and gears as well as suspensions, seats, cd and DVD players, etc...we buy a package.

For me...I would have loved to have the 5R110 tranny in my 2005 Ex since that would have given me yet one more gear to assist moving the load but I am stuck with the 4R100 tranny and it has done an exceptional job non-the-less.

Gears are what makes the motor do what it is designed to do. I'm not sure how you can have a motor by itself moving loads...that makes no logical sense to me...sorry...



Now hold on there...some are making the argument that we are to ignore gearing and go 1:1...

I happen to 100% agree with you BTW...check your reps too for the logical post...gearing and transmission ARE what make the motors do what they do best...and as I mentioned just above in this same post...I would have loved to have gotten the 5speed Torqshift tranny in my 2005 Ex for that extra gear!!!

Joe.

Originally Posted by David N.

And the ability to turn 5000 RPM is an integral part of the 6.8 modular. When you insist on a rear axle that is appropriate for an engine with a 3500 RPM redline, you artificially restrict much of its ability--just like if you remove the turbo on a diesel.

Originally Posted by bill11012

Yea, we don't have an long pulls here. I have heard there are some on I 10, but thats a long way from me.

If your pulling a trailer we can use that, if not I will provide mine and weight. 10,000 pounds is all I can do though if we use mine.

Originally Posted by SoCalSuperDuty03

P.S. Eating a fresh Navel, just picked yesterday. This thing is better than any apple in the whole world, bar none!!!!!

Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF

Anyone remember my comment about rednecks and sisters?


Yeah, me neither.

Originally Posted by Krewat

Let the crying begin:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ith-video.html

Gotta love the difference between the 2-valve 4R100 3.73-gear V10 from 2000, and the 6.7L 2011. Would really have loved to see a 4.30 gear 2005+ 3-valve V10 do that run and see what happens.

Funny thing was the Cummins blowing up...

Originally Posted by plgebbia

It seemed to me that the diesels got the load moving quicker.

Originally Posted by Krewat

Yes, they did. I only watched the 6.7, and the V10 video.

It seemed the 6.7 definitely got it moving off the line way faster, but didn't pickup a lot of speed after it shifted out of the lower gears. Not sure if that was a throttle-control thing by the driver, or it really was that way.

However, it is interesting to see how much of a difference there was between a second-generation V10 (2-valve PI head) with the lame 4R100 4-speed tranny and 3.73 gears, against a brand-new 6.7L PSD with the 6-speed.

It was also very interesting to listen to the tranny temps between the two. The 6-speed was actually hotter after the pull than the 4R100. But then, that might have something to do with Mike/5-star's tune in the V10 changing the shifting around a lot.

Originally Posted by Krewat

Let the crying begin:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ith-video.html

Gotta love the difference between the 2-valve 4R100 3.73-gear V10 from 2000, and the 6.7L 2011. Would really have loved to see a 4.30 gear 2005+ 3-valve V10 do that run and see what happens.

Funny thing was the Cummins blowing up...

Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn

All those guys deserve reps. Would not have expected the Dodge to have broken. Thought the cummins engine was their big selling point in those trucks.