IDI stands for Indirect Injection, the original Ford/Navistar diesel, 1983 to 1994.

As for does it work?
I can't answer that question yet, but I may be able to shortly.
I have rather extensive MPG figures compiled from all my fuel purchases over the last 10 years.
When I get my HHO generator producing a satisfactory amount of gas, I will be able to see what it does to MPG over the long run.

As for the car companies, how much do you think they should charge for something that increases fuel mileage 20%, but only uses water to refill?
How much more would you be willing to pay?
As soon as this device is patented, how much do you think an oil company would pay for the patent?
And after they bought it, do you think we would ever see it again?

I can tell you I personally know of a device patented in the 70's that did increase MPG.
The patent was bought by an oil company, and that device was never present on any motor after that.

Remember our government, the auto industry and the oil industry are all driven by money.
So there is no real dollar reason for any of them to develop HHO enhanced vehicles.

Windsheild washer fluid is not a good electrolyte for a HHO generator, to many other compounds in it like alcohol.

 

Hi again all!
I have been real busy lateley so i have not been by in a few days.
lets see, to answer questions.............
No, I have not given up, just been low on words for awhile! I smoked my first PWM unit by pushing it too hard on the 60 amp fuse so i sent it back to get repaired and will be kinder to it this time! LOL!......I just got it back so testing will resume the week of 7/7

I spaced my plates with a .187 thick steel plate while i was assembling the units, The hole pattern i made got me real close but i needed the spacer during assembly to keep the plates straight. I have not tried sealing the sides of the plates yet? cant comment on that mod!
In the winter time i will try a mixture of 20-25% denatured alcohol to keep from freezing the 2.5 gallons distilled water in each unit as well as the 2 bubblers i have inline now.

A MAP sensor adjuster is required for 1996/newer vehicles otherwise the computer will just dump in more fuel when it see's the extra O2! if you dont lean it out the HHO wont help you MPG!

I am going to the local diesel testing center Monday 7/7 and see what my exhaust levels are with the HHO running.......i will post data soon!

As for the skeptics and "nay sayers", there are allways people that refuse to accept new science, refuse to believe that something like this is possible and refuse to accept that there are people smarter than them out here in "experimental land"

I have seen my results and have data to back it up! It DOES WORK in a vehicle with all the proper components in place! I have those components in place and i am proceeding with tweaking and testing to improve my results. So far i am getting 24MPG city/highway in my 7.3L 2002 F250!
All the major car companies spend their money on marketing ploys to keep consumers buying their cars, they dont give a HOOT about MPG's, they just use it as hype!
They dont want anything on their cars and trucks they and the oil companies cant control the supply of or the service of, PERIOD! An engine that burns 90-100% of its fuel using HHO technology will deposit NO CARBON into the air, no carbon in the oil and internals of the engine and will theortically last forever! That is why we dont see HHO technology in the cars and trucks in the showrooms today.

We see fuel cell cars being promoted but in a way that oil and cars companies can controll the distribution of Hydrogen (at $4-$5 a gallon i am sure) and the life expectancy of the car will be controlled by the car company you can be assured.

 

Dave Sponaugle writes "I can tell you I personally know of a device patented in the 70's that did increase MPG. The patent was bought by an oil company, and that device was never present on any motor after that."
- you can but you won't describe it any more than that?!

Even if it was patented, then the designs(even if somewhat vague) would be available for everyone to look at and analyze. That's how patents work, otherwise you could mistakenly copy their material without knowing, and without the patent holder being able to prove you did.

The he continues... "Remember our government, the auto industry and the oil industry are all driven by money. So there is no real dollar reason for any of them to develop HHO enhanced vehicles."

- except that there are many governments and companies that would benefit from this. So it must be a global conspiracy in that case. Why are car companies using expensive batteries to make hybrids. I suppose this is to minimize profit and minimize results - this would seem to make sense in your eyes. Apparently they only don't like 'HHO' kits, but any other means of better fuel efficiency is allowed to come to market?

The oil companies would be glad to market this technology, whoever comes to market with it first makes the most money. The middle east is making by far the most money from oil, and the entire industrialized world would love to be off oil, and that benefit far outweighs any company's agenda.

The real threat to oil companies is the high price of oil, it is what is turning everyone to look for alternatives. It's not like people wouldn't buy oil if they had an HHO kit. I'm sure China would still need oil. I'm sure people still want plastics made from oil. Airplanes use oil. Farms use fertilizer made from oil.

Did you read the article?

The Motor Vehicle Aftermarket Retrofit Device Evaluation Program is intended to analyze how well aftermarket products can help fuel efficiency, however no HHO kit or manufacturer has enrolled in the program. If their product did work they would make millions immediately, so they must just not like money.

dlmcbm writes "they just made a car that used HHO to make electric to run an electric motor."

Who is they? and what car is this?

By the way, HHO is an imaginative 'magnecule' Ruggero Maria Santilli proposed to exist in his falsified theory. At least call it Hydrogen fuel enhancement, or Hydrogen and Oxygen, something that exists in reality.

And I do think this Hydrogen fuel enhancement may provide an economical reduction in emissions in diesel engines, but most likely nothing else.

Next thing you're going to tell me is that filling your tires with nitrogen will improve fuel efficiency.

 

Well said!

As an Engineer and former "Scientist", I'd like to add that not everything great and/or useful came out of a big expensive lab.

 

So all of the car companies are actually working together to make sure their cars don't last long?

And I thought they were competitors each trying to make the best car they could. It would seem to me that to make an engine last a million miles you would have to use two oil filters and lots of oil the way 18 wheelers do. I suppose every part in a car is designed to fail so we need new cars. The other viewpoint is that they are all trying to produce cars for as cheap as possible and simply are unable to produce higher quality parts. Wouldn't there be military vehicles that could outlast consumer vehicles if it was so easy.

 

No, all the car companies are not working together to make cars that do not last long. All the car companies are working seperately to make cars that do not last as long. Quality is going up slightly in the last few years, but no one wants to loose repeat business. 10 years is the ideal life expectancy for a car or light truck. Any longer and we may opt to keep and restore old and reliable vehicles.

I've seen enough cars in wrecking yards after being hacked up to see the locations in the unibody that were obviously not well protected from corrosion.

There is a reason why cars rust from the inside out.

There is a reason why cars are made of mild steel that requires 3 layers of protection to barely reach a normal service life (zinc, primer, topcoat). Aluminum is not that expencive and even stainless steel is cost effective if purchaced in large volume when you consider not havning to paint hidden areas.

There is a reason why sleeve bearings are used instead of ball bearings.

There is a reason why to this day ford still will not undercoat their pickups at the factory.

There is a reason why seam sealer and primer at the factory is not UV resistant even though I can buy both at my autoparts store (urethane).

There is a reason why GM chose to kill its own electric car, the EV1 even though everyone that drove one loved them. It was strong lightweight composite/aluminum construction, used a brushless 3 ph AC drive motor coupled to a fixed ratio transmission(indefinate service life) and was meant to be powered by batteries that could have lasted 10 years or more. This thing could take on a corvette and with the speed governor disabled it set land speed records (its all been documented).

There is a reason why after 20 years, fuel economy has not improved nor has the energy conversion efficiency of the internal combustion engine.

I don't normally have patience for conspiricy theories, but the auto industry is the best scams going right now. I will never buy a new vehicle. Only used, and only one that lends itself to being upgraded.

Do you really believe that they are incapable of making a car that doesn't rust or break down for a minimum of 20 years? Man walked on the moon in 1969, do you really think that this is such a big challenge?

As a side note, I do not believe the claims of a car running on water, so I guess I might have found some common ground with you, dougphysics.

 

Honda FCX Clarity - How FCX Works - Official Web Site

BMW North America

Ford Hydrogen Car - Hydrogen car information

GM Hydrogen Car - Hydrogen car information

How many more links do you want? these are all big car companies building hydrogen cars. Not the HHO system we build (sorry I did post before that they were running on HHO) BUT hydrogen is hydrogen what ever way you get it.

Doug wrote--And I do think this Hydrogen fuel enhancement may provide an economical reduction in emissions in diesel engines, but most likely nothing else.

How do you think it helps emissions?? Has to do a complete fuel burn right??? Diesel engines only burn about 80-85% of the fuel in the cylinder. so we need to burn the other 15-20% to get great emissions right? By adding "our"HHO we now dont have to put the extra 15-20% in there to begin with to achive the same results(speed and power) as before so therefore we get better fuel milage. If you agree that the HHO that is produced will burn then there is no reason to think it should not work for what "WE" want to do with it. They make propane injection for diesels that does the same thing. They offer about a 100hp and 5MPG but we cant just make our own propane. We are not trying to drive a car around the world on a quart of water. I do think it would be tough to have a car run on HHO only but i wont get into that because thats not what we are trying to do.

 

Sorry had to throw this one in here to

HFCIT Hydrogen Production: Current Technology

U.S. Department of Energy is working with Electrolytic Processes to make Hydrogen.


one more thing i was thinking about. It has to do with car companies making cars that dont last. I remember a day when a new car had a 5yr. 50,000 mile warranty. then they all dropped to 3yr 36,000 miles and they said because they were making the cars better. Then why not make the warranty longer? They just want to get out of the warranty then hope you will buy another when it cost to much to fix your old one. You talk about big trucks holding a lot of oil and having 2 oil filters.... they also run an average of 1 million miles to. BUT cost about $100,000. Cars go about 150-200K and cost $15-50K. Could they make a car that would be low cost, good MPG, low maintenance, and last a million miles? YEA but they would be bankrupt in 2 years.

Sorry for all the BLA BLA BLA guys. think I am going to go work on my HHO generator now.

 

Sorry, just sat down to catch up.......2 emails are on their way!

 

For all the people smarter than us that don't think this is possible technology or viable.....then go away! There are plenty of other threads on this forum that have this negativity crap all over it and we do not want or need it! That is why we are here discussing this to see if it is viable and if some of us want to spend a little money and time playing with it then how does it hurt you? Guess what else.....if it does work and we can prove it, we will let you know. But if you don't want to hear it, then we won't shove our positive information in your bashing thread because you won't want to hear it!
So "F" off and leave us fools alone!

 

If only it was free to make the hydrogen, then it would help the mpg. But since there has never been proof that this works, I am skeptical. The companies making HHO kits say it will give you 15-40% increase in mpg in diesel and gas engines, sounds unlikely. Perhaps you will be able to clean up the emissions without lowering your mpg, and that would be an achievement.

 

i agree,twtcad

 

twtcad - sorry, i will stop posting now.
lol

 

What difference does it make if I describe anything in detail?
That was over 30 years ago, everything was running on gasoline engines with carburetors.
I don't think anything bigger than a lawn mower still uses carburetors.
Like I said it did work, an oil company did buy the patent, and it was never seen on any production vehicle.
And if you are old enough to remember we had gasoline shortages in the 70's, but as soon as prices doubled, the shortage went away, and stayed away for 20 years.
Who were the big winners in the 70's gas shortage?
Honda, Volkswagen, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru and others all captured a huge market share in the US as a result.
Detroit was caught totally unprepared, and has never recovered.

I also guess you have never heard of planned obsolescence.
Do you want to guess how many parts for my 1986 F 250 are not available at Ford?
22 years old is obsolete?

Read your own link about improved MPG and exhaust emission with hydrogen injection.

I looked at your profile, you list no vehicle.

It take me 275 dollars to fill up my truck.
Even a 10% increase in fuel mileage would be welcome.

Lastly, look back over history.
How many big discoveries were made in basements and home garages?
Even the computer you are typing on had it's start in a garage.

The American spirit is to adapt, invent and overcome any obstacle.
This thread is our own attempt at overcoming an obstacle.
And since there are several people using different methods and sharing results, I do believe something will come out of it.

I also believe that back through history, that most of the inventors were told it would never work.

Look at what was the norm for 1908 compared to 2008 and it is rather easy to see how that worked out.

 

Dougphysics,

let me ask you this....... have you actually tested any of these HHO claims and built any units to "sceintifically test" with REAL data from controlled experiments, not data you read somewhere or heard on a tv show or radio programm?

I am a retired mechanical engineer and a damn good one at that! i am a jack of all trades and an expert at many, i have common sense that i value and i do not like being called a liar in so many words!

i am and will continue to conduct tests with my HHO system with a controlled methodology and will have mathmatics to show results, not hear say and conjecture.

Right off the bat i attained a 40% increase in MPG on a 106 mile RT run after filling up at my local station and then a few hours later i returned to that exact same pump and filled up in the exact same manner as i did a few hours before and i used 6.06GAL of diesel= 17.49MPG. before the test with the HHO i was getting 12.5MPG with the exact same test criteria. Now call me a liar and tell me my data is off!

Go off and learn about hydrogen technology, go build a test unit and install it on your vehicle (if you have any mechanical skills to do so) be true to the science and then come back with your data. Unless you are totally inept or take short cuts and cheat the science you will find marks in the positive for HHO!

If you are unwilling to do this then you are not worth spit as an old friend used to say!