I’m with Noob. I would skip the new radiator until you have an issue with your current one. It would be easy to plumb in the new radiator at a later date. The OTA should be fine for all but the most strenuous useage considering you’re using an updated OTA cooler (I would not recommend OTA only if using stock due to puny size).

I feel like you might be going a bit overkill on the cooler. I have a 6.0 Dorman replacement part (albeit with OTW cooler) and it keeps my trans temps very happy even towing. The benefits from internal turbulators is likely not worth the extra effort.

Just my opinion but think this is a couple places you could save a little coin.

 

Good choices, I dont feel another radiator is needed, but it wont hurt to do as it is aging.
My e99 4r with just a good converter and valve body without the otw radiator and a mishimoto cooler never got above 143° in the last 800 miles of towing over 12,000 lbs.

 

COA = Course of Action

The military loves their acronyms.

Mark K, our resident 4R100 expert claims the OTW cooler is essential and a very worthwhile addition or component. I don't have a 4R100 and despite being confident that Mark K knows what he is talking about, I trust each one of the fellas above. They are stand up people that will tell you straight and hold their ground when something is not right. Some of the advice we receive on this forum and other forums like it is flat out wrong or the post creator attempting to make themselves feel better about their decision. That is not what most of us here on the FTE are about.

We are here to tell it like it is, be it a good choice or bad choice.

As for the Sam Wyse transmission, there is not a lot of information on the forum about them.

Here are two links with Wyse in the title:

• Sam Wyse Stage 2 Installed
• transmission stage 1 Sam Wyse ??

Here are 31 results with Wyse in the content of the posts:

• https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/s...rchid=31795499

The other day, I read an article or post on another forum when searching for something 4R100 related for another FTE'r. It may have been Listor and his OD/P1832 DTC issue... My point is, I read a post on another forum that mentioned that the QC on the Sam Wyse transmissions has gone down significantly over the past year or so. Now, this may have been complete BS or a blow hard as the interwebs are full of them. I don't really think there is a valid way to verify this comment either, so take it for what it is.

The two fellas in the links I provided above are still pretty active here. Carl travels full time with his RV, so he may have a bit of a delayed response. I bet either of them would speak to you about their experiences and thoughts regarding the Wyse transmission.

Corey at CNC Fab is a big proponent of Wyse and I have spoken to Corey many times and done business with him many times as well. I even had an issue with a brand new design of HPOP hose that he came out with and I was the first customer. We worked together for a couple of weeks to figure out what was happening and he made it right in the end. I decided not to use the hose though and sent it back to him after it was all said and done. No harm, no foul, it just didn't work out even though we worked together to figure out what was going on. This speaks volumes about his passion to "make it right". That was back in 2017 or earlier, not sure, I have slept since then...

Just some food for thought as you do your best to make a decision that will set the pace for the next decade or more of your trucks life and service.

 

Was the piece in your hand hard or soft?

Did it feel like an O-ring?

Did you pull the filter?

Was there an O ring on the filter?

Have you checked for codes in memory since that one time where you noticed the transmission didn't quite want to go into OD?

If no codes, then I would feel the seal seat for the filter neck, and if clear, clean, and not nicked, install a new filter, new fluid, and try the transmission out.

If you are going to have the transmission eventually rebuilt it anyway, the only way to rebuild it right for the investment in hauling it out from under the truck is to replace all consumables and fail prone parts, so there isn't a lot of downside.

The upside is that the cost of the fluid might be less than the cost of the tow, or the cost of the freight, and you can drive your truck to the transmission shop of choice, and on the way, discover if the one fault you found repeats itself, monitor transmission related PIDs for more information about the failure, and see if any DTCs finally set.

As far as transmission fluid cooling, I quickly recognized the list of part numbers of the fluid lines that you posted above as a screenshot of one of my posts from years ago, as I wrote the parenthetical commentary explaining how all lines were needed. The metal lines are beautifully bent in all the right places... which avoids kinking, squeezing, or collapsing of soft lines. The pre-fab lines also side step having to be inventive about ways to route and support the lines.

When crawling 3 mph up hill stuck in gridlocked traffic, or when working a trailer into a tight spot back and forth in forward and reverse, there is obviously little air flow. An oil to water cooler is more effective at absorbing heat from the transmission fluid than an oil to air cooler when operating in low or no speed, high load situations. My production radiator only had 17,000 miles on it when I pulled it to put in a new radiator that had the OTW cooler in the bottom. I wasn't about to suffer through Ford's inferior implementation of transmission fluid cooling by waiting until my production radiator failed before upgrading. I swapped that radiator out like trading a lead wheel weight for a hunk of gold bullion.

At the time, the 6.0L was still two years away into the then future, so obviously no 6.0L coolers existed then. In the time since, many 99-00 owners who have only changed their OTA coolers to the 6.0L cooler have reported that they were satisfied with the results. But I can't help but notice Ford's efforts to do better with their transmissions with each generation of Super Duty. The 4R100 was an improvement over the E40D. The 5R110W was an improvement over the 4R100. The 6R140 was such a substantial improvement over previous automatic transmissions, it is currently being used in the F-750 medium duty truck today.

With transmission fluid cooling systems being such a critical component of automatic transmission performance and longevity, it is interesting to find that in all of Ford's newer and better transmissions, Ford has always retained OTW cooling, and not just relied on OTA cooling. In fact, the current model year Super Duty 6.7L diesels do not have an OTA cooler at all. Only an OTW cooler. This speaks volumes.

 

Remember though, the 6.7's have two cooling systems consisting of two radiators and two water pumps, one cooling system for the engine, and another for the intake charge air, egr, fuel and transmission

 

How about a discrete OTW cooler?

 

I guess my reasoning behind getting the OTW radiator is I live in a city in the PNW so stop and go traffic for extended periods of time, occasionally on hills, isn't uncommon.

I might feel alright with just the air cooler if I had a trans temp gauge, but I can't monitor that over ODB due to my E99 pcm (it only offers trans temp sensor voltage in forscan), and I'd rather spend the money on the OTW rad instead of a dedicated gauge.

@Y2KW57 that is indeed your parts list (very useful). Per your questions about the shard: it's hard metal, looks like a piece of snap ring though I can't be sure (Wyse said maybe part of a bearing). The filter oring was removed, and the filter had a lot of metal in it. The fluid in the cooler had a lot of metal in it as well. No transmission related codes on the PCM last I checked... Not sure if the E99 PCM has that functionality?






@FordTruckNoob I've thought about that, problem is with that expense might as well get the new radiator. Plus it involves some r&d to figure out wrt mounting it, where best to plumb it, whether it has enough cooling capacity, how it could effect the rest of the cooling loop.

 

C’mon guys. A new Dorman 6.0 (or Mishimoto) cooler along with monitoring trans temps will work fine. Less money and work. I would not get fancy here unless I found a true need with temperature monitoring.

But…. I’ve followed enough of Priuslover’s build to know she doesn’t stop with ‘good enough’.

edit: Priuslover posted while I was typing. Making all my comments null and void. Typical for me.

 

I think one of these would be the answer, just fill with ice before your ride through town

 

@PriusLover I've cut open three FT-114's, and yours is the most metal shaven filled that I've ever seen.

At this point, I'd like to call @Mark Kovalsky into this conversation, because due to the thread title, he might not realize that the topic has now turned to automatic transmissions.

 

That does look like a snap ring or the edge of a thrust bearing race.

Didn’t realize your E99 wouldn’t show trans temp. I’m pretty sure my CTS has a PID for E99_trans_temp but could be wrong. I still think you’d be fine without the OTW cooler as long as you upgrade air cooler and you’re not doing heavy towing. Lots and lots of misinformed folks out there bypassing the radiator while installing their new OTA cooler and swear by it.

 

Surprisingly the fluid didn't have a burnt odor/looked a healthy red. Must have been a fatigued part failure that sent bits elsewhere, causing all these metal flakes and shavings. Haha yeah this thread has taken many turns since it started.

Local Ford truck dealer is giving me a deal on the 6.0 cooler at 165... no reason to go Dorman. Autozone is doing a 20% off deal right now, so will go with the lifetime warranty Duralast radiator (and Dorman coolant res as I need one of those). Those three parts total ~400. The radiator hardlines seem a bit pricy so I'll fabricate my own hoses and hook them up to the existing hardlines.

Anyone know if the trans cooler fittings on the radiator are SAE o-ring boss?


@RacinJasonWV I'm sure the PCM can see the trans temp given the sensor voltage is visible, but whatever the equation is for mapping the voltage figure to temperature, FORSCAN doesn't seem to have it.

 

Yeah, I forget other folks don’t get a heavy discount at the local parts store like I do (family in the business). I’d go the Ford route too.

CTS may show it, but your direction is cheaper than buying one to monitor and then still have the possibility of needing another purchase later. Good COA.

Ok hurry up and get that trans in so we can hear about how the ‘new’ truck runs!

 

It doesn't look terminal to me, but I have seen better.

I agree.

 

Past week I've been working on replacing the parking brake shoes (ugh) and rear axle seals since the parking brake didn't work... going to need that once the transmission is out. The bearings seem fine so re-used them.

Also figuring that while the radiators out, it's a good time to do preventative replacement on the water pump, oil pump, front main seal, and oil cooler o-rings.

When the transmission comes out, I'll replace the carrier bearing and see if the rear main seal needs addressing.

Picked up the 6.0 trans cooler from Ford. Surprisingly hasn't been outsourced to China; is marked as Made in Canada!