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@Sous Your methodical data collection efforts were a large driver in our decision to go with this system. You should feel proud of that invaluable service to the current and future community here.
Thank you for the kind words. I believe in karma and have seen it in action many times over the years here and in person.
Your story here is entertaining, educational and inspirational. Thank you for letting us tag along and watch from a distance.
Originally Posted by RacinJasonWV
Home rebuild is not something I would recommend for your situation. I think it cost me $2000 just in parts… or was it $1200? My darn memory. Point is, it will cost a fair share even just in parts so $4000 to a reputable shop is probably a decent deal.
Adding a Hydra and SXE should make this a totally different truck than the one you purchased!
I agree with Jason on both points noted above.
Also, rebuilt 4R100, Hydra and SXE will most definitely be a totally different truck.
Appreciate the words of encouragement. We were supposed to use the rig for a camping trip first weekend of August so it hit a bit hard realizing that, after all this work, that wouldn't be happening. Today made some calls and a, local performance diesel shop recommended an experienced rebuilder. Didn't speak long but what he said sounds good at 4k complete cost, and can fit us in soon. Feeling a little more hopeful today.
@RacinJasonWV given the size of the shard I'm thinking part of a retainer ring. Who knows how long it's been in there, though I wouldn't be surprised if it's recent since the truck went from having less than stock power to more than stock. Currently using a Hydra with the PHP tunes. I'd love to try and rebuild the thing myself but lacking a shop and some of the more specialized tools prevents me from taking that route.
@Sous Your methodical data collection efforts were a large driver in our decision to go with this system. You should feel proud of that invaluable service to the current and future community here.
@PriusLover , I too am sorry to hear of your new issues. Unfortunately, that is how things usually progress when buying a 20-yo used truck. You fix one thing only to find the next weakest link. Don’t feel bad. You’ve probably headed of months of issues with the work you have already done. I went the more traditional route when I bought my truck and took care of issues as they arose for the next 3 years. Mind you these were issues that affected the basic functioning of the truck, not go fast bits.
@KubotaOrange76 Looks like it should seal up much better. Thanks!
@FordTruckNoob It was definitely something I was expecting. I was hoping it'd be a few years off though as the transmission that's on the truck now is a replacement. I'm glad I discovered the issue before we took it on a trip, and I guess the plus side of addressing things up front is not having to worry later on. Hard on the finances though.
@Sous@RacinJasonWV Don't forget the Redhead too. That was the first upgrade that was really mind-blowing.
I'm having a bit of decision paralysis with regards to the transmission; there is a local builder with a good reputation among local diesel shops who quoted 4k for the complete job including pulling and installing. We haven't spoken at length but it sounds like he rebuilds with the standard aftermarket parts; billet torque converter, shift kit, tugger, valve body, etc.
One diesel shop I spoke with said, given the hydra, T4, and larger future injectors, BTS is the option to consider, not just for reliability, but also because it's known quantity which makes trouble shooting future issues or tuning much easier vs a builder who plays things closer to the chest in terms of methods and changes. Haven't spoken to Brian yet, but I'm gathering I'd be in for a wait and 5k before freight charges. And I'd have to install the transmission myself in my brother's shop since, at that cost, I couldn't afford a shop to do it.
I don't foresee myself beyond 400HP because of the costly and extensive supporting mods required (figure 160 or 205 hybrids), so I don't necessarily need the beefiest option. At the same time, I never want to deal with or worry about the transmission again, I don't want to worry about what it can and can't handle. So the question is, is the BTS worth the extra cost and hassle in this circumstance?
Well, look at spending the money now as an investment in your future happiness and the avoidance of paying 2022/2023/2024 prices. The corollary to buyer’s remorse is the cheap ***’ regret.
For the transmission, I can tell you you won’t be disappointed if you go with a BTS. Brian really stands behind his product. He fixed mine when I broke the intermediate shaft for the cost of shipping. @Dan V and @Sous will testify how hard I am on my equipment so don’t read too much into that part about me breaking the intermediate shaft. That was before I had even done my T4 conversion. I broke two Ford reman transmissions before I got the BTS.
Now is the time to get a BTS or Sam Wyse or similar style trans. I blew my E4OD while towing in AZ and went with a Ford reman. Wish I would have spent the extra on one of those instead....
The cost difference just isn't there to get a BTS or whatever with my trans with 28k miles on it so I have the tugger kit ready to go in, and will get an HD converter.
I did forget about the Red Head steering gear... Your right, that is a "gateway" parts swap that opens up the door to a world of possibilities.
As for the transmission, that is a tough one and you should speak to your partner and sleep on it. Even if they are unaware of anything mechanical, they will see which you feel better about in your face, eyes, body movements, tone of voice, etc...
Having someone like that can be a big advantage when making big decisions.
Leonard is EXTREMELY hard on his truck. He is very good to the truck too and upgrades just about everything to top tier parts, but he has a unique truck with a unique personality.
BTS is the top dog for 4R100 builds, but there are plenty of other good shops out there too. If you never plan to go with bigger injectors, maybe a slightly upgraded local shop rebuild will do well for the next 10 years or more.
Is the local shop replacing the cooler as well, they probably should even if it is new. I am pretty sure that is the recommended course of action when the 4R100 is showing debris in the pan as yours is.
The right choice for your application will come to you and your partner. Good luck and keep us posted.
The decision is up to you obviously. I have only ever heard good things about BTS and believe they likely build the best 4R100’s available. But that’s not to say others can’t do a very fine job as well.
My opinion is a ‘standard’ upgraded build would suit the needs of a slightly tuned and slightly larger injector truck. The T4 in our case I feel is irrelevant.
I don’t remember many details off hand but it seems the main upgrade/update parts are
1- TC
2- spiral snap ring
3- upgraded sprag
4- 6.0 cooler
I’d say any reputable builder will be using updated parts during the build.
My home built trans is still hanging in there after 30k. Hopefully it has lots more in it.
I think the biggest issue with BTS will be the delay. Seems like I’ve heard he has about a 3 month waiting period right now (speaks of his quality due to demand for his work).
Cost is higher but probably more important is the inconvenience of trying to swap it yourself with limited resources.
Keep us in the loop. For some reason I find your build fascinating.
I think a big part of the interest is due to seeing you (very quickly) grow in your knowledge and abilities. You seem to ask all the right questions, make good decisions, and aren’t afraid to jump in and try something new. I’m learning a lot by what you investigate and share. Thanks for letting us tag along!
@KubotaOrange76 Looks like it should seal up much better. Thanks!
@FordTruckNoob It was definitely something I was expecting. I was hoping it'd be a few years off though as the transmission that's on the truck now is a replacement. I'm glad I discovered the issue before we took it on a trip, and I guess the plus side of addressing things up front is not having to worry later on. Hard on the finances though.
@Sous@RacinJasonWV Don't forget the Redhead too. That was the first upgrade that was really mind-blowing.
I'm having a bit of decision paralysis with regards to the transmission; there is a local builder with a good reputation among local diesel shops who quoted 4k for the complete job including pulling and installing. We haven't spoken at length but it sounds like he rebuilds with the standard aftermarket parts; billet torque converter, shift kit, tugger, valve body, etc.
One diesel shop I spoke with said, given the hydra, T4, and larger future injectors, BTS is the option to consider, not just for reliability, but also because it's known quantity which makes trouble shooting future issues or tuning much easier vs a builder who plays things closer to the chest in terms of methods and changes. Haven't spoken to Brian yet, but I'm gathering I'd be in for a wait and 5k before freight charges. And I'd have to install the transmission myself in my brother's shop since, at that cost, I couldn't afford a shop to do it.
I don't foresee myself beyond 400HP because of the costly and extensive supporting mods required (figure 160 or 205 hybrids), so I don't necessarily need the beefiest option. At the same time, I never want to deal with or worry about the transmission again, I don't want to worry about what it can and can't handle. So the question is, is the BTS worth the extra cost and hassle in this circumstance?
Coming your way today via fedex ground, so it will probably show up in a month if fedex continues delivering like the usps
After making some calls and doing some reading, I think we're going to go with Wyse as this option seems to achieve the best balance of:
-Reputable builder
-Transparency in terms of stuff done/parts used in the build
-Price
-Lead time (4-6 weeks)
The local guy would have probably been fine but he seemed reticent or not interested detailing how he builds them or the specific parts used aside from the big things like shift kit and TC. The Stage 2 Wyse isn't much more and has the benefit of clarity and reputation, leaving me feeling confident I'll never have to worry about the transmission for the remainder of ownership aside from fluids.
Originally Posted by Sous
Is the local shop replacing the cooler as well, they probably should even if it is new. I am pretty sure that is the recommended course of action when the 4R100 is showing debris in the pan as yours is.
They didn't ask about it. The stock cooler on the truck was bypassed by the prev owner. Because it's an E99 and doesn't have the OTW cooler in the radiator, this is all the cooling the transmission had evidently:
So in addition a transmission I'll need a OTA cooler, new radiator with the OTW cooler, and the lines to plumb it all up.
Recommendations for the cooler and rad? Non-Ford units reliable? For the 6.0 cooler it seems the aftermarket versions might not have the turbulators? For the lines I found this:
Originally Posted by RacinJasonWV
You seem to ask all the right questions, make good decisions, and aren’t afraid to jump in and try something new. I’m learning a lot by what you investigate and share. Thanks for letting us tag along!
Haha no problem. It's my hope that by documenting all this stuff life may be made easier for those who follow.
I think your reasoning is sound and you have a good COA (to use a Sousism). I’d say you can wait until your radiator takes a dump before replacing it with one that has the OTW cooler in it. My 2000 doesn’t have the OTW radiator either. My transmission temps are fine with just the 6.0 cooler. In fact, it cools so well I had to add a Derale bypass so the transmission gets up to temperature in winter. I’m not a fan of grill covers.
