Gas vs PSD

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May 30, 2010 | 06:46 AM

#4561

CampSpringsJohn

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Joined: Dec 2006

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From: Melbourne, Ky

The 2 trucks I have are used totally different. The 97 is my work truck, and it gets a lot of miles put on it. The 02 is basically my car. There are some weeks it only goes to church, which is 5 miles round trip.

Jun 1, 2010 | 10:53 AM

#4562

joe f350

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Joined: Oct 2008

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From: concord ca

yes parts may be more for a psd but they dont where out as fast like the v10 parts

Jun 1, 2010 | 10:57 AM

#4563

bill11012

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From: Texas

And part of a V10 will wear out sooner? What proof do you have that they wear out sooner?

Jun 1, 2010 | 11:45 AM

#4564

Jrfish007

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Joined: May 2010

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From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill11012

And part of a V10 will wear out sooner? What proof do you have that they wear out sooner?

I would agree that Ford makes an incredibly bullet proof big gas engine, some of the most reliable in the market IMO.

However, the sheer fact of the RPM's that the gas engine runs at will wear the parts out quicker than in a diesel engine with it's low RPM range. The gas engine simply has to put more RPM's in per mile causing more friction and more wear per mile. The bigger question is who will be putting 500,000 miles on their truck for that to actually matter? Not many I suspect.

Jun 1, 2010 | 12:34 PM

#4565

krewat

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Joined: Jul 2002

Posts: 42,561

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From: Long Island USA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

However, the sheer fact of the RPM's that the gas engine runs at will wear the parts out quicker than in a diesel engine with it's low RPM range.

Common fallacy, it's not true.

Remember the incredible compression ratio of the diesel, and that it HAS to be beefed up to survive.

Read up on the Olds diesel made from a 350... Oldsmobile Diesel V6 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not exactly reliable when used with diesel technology.

But then, this is an old tired argument... round-and-round we go, where it stops, nobody knows...

The reality is, when diesels are beefed up to a point where they can stand the compression (both static and dynamic), they wind up lasting a lot longer than gas engines. It's a bi-product of the engineering involved.

Now, when Ford designed new gas engines and went to low-tension rings, and high tolerances on machining, their gas engines' longevity went through the roof.

Jun 1, 2010 | 01:10 PM

#4566

Jrfish007

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Joined: May 2010

Posts: 650

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From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krewat

An old argument indeed. But friction causes wear, and at the end of the day the gassers have more of it per mile. The high compression from the diesel causes more of stress fraction wear which boils down to engineering and quality control being a larger determinate than for the gassers; different types of wear, which could be combined to cause failure.

In the end, I still fall back to the fact that in general, the rest of the truck will fall apart long before any of these engines fall apart from normal wear and tear.

Jun 1, 2010 | 06:39 PM

#4567

CampSpringsJohn

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From: Melbourne, Ky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

So, the fact that my 97 has 4:56 gears and runs at 2600rpm's at 70mph will shorten the length of the motor as opposed to an engine that has 3:73 gears and runs 2000rpms at 70mph? While I agree that engineering has something to do with engines lasting longer, I believe better quality oil is probably as much, if not more to do with them lasting longer.

Was talking to an oil guy 10 years ago, and he said back in the 1980's, quaker state and valvoline were the worst oils on the market. Now, late 90's, they are among the top.

Jun 2, 2010 | 04:38 AM

#4568

Jrfish007

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From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn

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Certainly neglecting the engine will cause premature failure, that is a given. As for oils though... 20 years ago, even 10 years ago, they were different and the type of oil you used could impact the engine through sludge build up and such. Today though, I don't believe that to be the case. If you use a normal oil and change it often I doubt you will have any oil problems. The detergents and additives in all your normal oils are very well balanced, and as long as you changed them before those burn off, degrade, or are used up, your will do it's job. Few oils will loose their viscosity either before being removed.

Today's chemistry and additive packages make almost every mainstream oil pretty good. Basically you have normal oils, synthetic oils, and real high end synthetic oils. Normal oil's are going to be pretty similar in performance with some minor differences, they use the same basic chemistry for the packages. Synthetic aren't even that different among each other, they will certainly go longer without losing viscosity than normal oils, but are limited by the amount additives and detergents that can be added. The real high end oils, like Castrol Syntech 0w30 Euro formula from Germany has proven far superior to all other 0w30's. But your talking about an oil that is almost $8 a quart and very hard to find in the US unless you buy it OEM from Benz or Porsche and pay even more.

In all, I think the only for oil to really kill your engine today is by neglect. If you change out your oil with the proper oil on a regular basis, you won't have any oil problems and most of the time, as I already mentioned, the rest of the car will fall apart first.

If you really don't believe me, how many people have you heard of that have oil problems with their cars in the last 10 years? I knew 1 guy and he went 10k miles on normal oil in his V10 Dodge truck. He took out his oil and bragged about how clear it was, he wasn't to happy when I told it it was clear because the oil didn't suspend the sludge. Instead the sludge was all over the inside of his engine.
<o

> </o

>
Anyway, I spent too much time studying oils (and money getting them tested) for my degree, so I'm stepping off my soap box now.

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Jun 2, 2010 | 03:22 PM

#4569

brian42

Lead Driver

Joined: Dec 2006

Posts: 7,092

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From: San Diego, CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jrfish007

The bigger question is who will be putting 500,000 miles on their truck for that to actually matter? Not many I suspect.

I agree in this day and age that people change cars like they change clothes. If you do not want to take the time or have much know-how it is almost cheaper to get a new car when the warranty runs out. With the cost of all the electronics and specialty parts, along with how tightly it's packed just to make it all fit on the vehicle, it can be a very pricey venture.

On the other hand I am old school. Vehicles are not a disposable commodity to me. I take pride in what I own and keep things for the long run. I don't really need a diesel right now, but in a few years when I retire from the Navy I'll be settling down and then it will be time to start shopping for an RV trailer or 5th wheel and who knows what else. I wanted to stay flexible, plus I love having a 6' 9" 'short' bed. I can't imagine being in anything smaller.

Besides, I just turned 200K last week and am almost 1/2 way there!

Jun 2, 2010 | 04:21 PM

#4570

CampSpringsJohn

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Joined: Dec 2006

Posts: 14,069

Likes: 17

From: Melbourne, Ky

Speaking of oil, back when I was in high school, a fellow I knew worked for GE in Cincinnati building jet engines. He told us that if we had the same type of oil for use in cars as they put in aircraft engines, we should get a million miles out of an engine. He NEVER changed the oil in his cars. Every 3000 miles, he changed the filter, swore by hastings filters, and just topped off the oil. He would get over 200,000 miles out of his cars before he bought a new one. It was 100 miles round trip for him to go to work.

Jun 2, 2010 | 06:05 PM

#4571

phillips91

Postmaster

Joined: Apr 2008

Posts: 4,724

Likes: 4

From: Rogersville, TN

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn

He NEVER changed the oil in his cars. Every 3000 miles, he changed the filter, swore by hastings filters, and just topped off the oil. He would get over 200,000 miles out of his cars before he bought a new one. It was 100 miles round trip for him to go to work.

That's how my grandfather was too. He had a 50's model f-800 tow truck that he put over 400k miles on and never changed the oil. Just changed the filter and topped the oil off when it needed it. Sometimes he didn't even change the filter...... I got a 69 LTD from him 2 years ago that still had an oil filter that my dad put on it in 1972.....

Jun 2, 2010 | 06:12 PM

#4572

Jrfish007

Elder User

Joined: May 2010

Posts: 650

Likes: 0

From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampSpringsJohn

yes, you could in theory never change the oil if keep adding the detergents and additives and changing your filter. But for the cost of regular oil, it just isn't worth the risk to me, specially with a newer engine.

Jun 2, 2010 | 06:16 PM

#4573

Jrfish007

Elder User

Joined: May 2010

Posts: 650

Likes: 0

From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian42

Well, I also like my basic truck and hope to keep it for a while. I just don't drive enough mile to really build miles up on it, about 500 per month, so miles probably won't kill me. The truck will prbably start falling apart, and while I like to keep them for a while, I don't like replacing parts on a monthly basis on a 10 year old truck.

that said, I will always have a newer vehical, probably leased and under warranty for the wife and children, just because...

Jun 3, 2010 | 09:03 AM

#4574

krewat

FTE Leadership Emeritus

Joined: Jul 2002

Posts: 42,561

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From: Long Island USA

Comparing jet engines to internal-combustion piston-based engines is an apples-to-oranges thing.

The byproducts of combustion (gases, acids, carbon, etc) wind up in the crankcase of a conventional piston engine.

In jet engines, yes, they get HOT, but the oil is not contaminated over time with the products of combustion.

No matter what you do, an internal combustion engine's oil WILL get contaminated, and no matter what off-the-shelf filter you use, it can't remove all the contaminants.

Jun 3, 2010 | 09:18 AM

#4575

Jrfish007

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Joined: May 2010

Posts: 650

Likes: 0

From: WV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krewat

You will always have contaminates, but with proper additives, as the concentration of the contaminates goes up, they will form stick together and form larger particle that can be filtered out. Is keeping your oil so saturated with those contaminants a good idea, I would think not. Not to mention you will need a way to make sure the detergents and additives are all up to par (i.e. frequent oil testing). If you're going to go through the trouble of draining you oil off, spending $20+ for analysis, then purchasing the right additives, you might as well buy some new oil and be done with it. Unless you are all about saving the planet, in which case probably won't be driving a Super Duty

Additionally, with today's much tighter tolerances on engines, the room for error on the additives is going to be very slim compared to the cars of 30 years ago. Heck I had an car from the 70's I never changed oil in because by the time it hit 3,000 miles it had burned through at least 4 quarts of oil. Why change it when you just replaced it?

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