Thanks for the info on consumption. That would negate my thoughts on constant water level. That lets me simplify.

Recirculating serves many purposes for me:

1. Cooling, though I understand that a properly balanced system should not have a problem.

2. Installing the reactor remotely. This would allow me to install it under the truck and pretty much leave it there.

3. Easily maintain water level under the hood. This goes with #2.

4. Increasing volume of fluid should make the small amount lost to the reation have even less of an effect on the whole system.

5. Never have to worry about the plates in the reactor running dry.

It really depends on what I can find for a constant use pump. Something small, low power draw and long living.

That speed controller looks interesting.

I was going to talk to an engineer friend of mine that builds computers control systems for various applications, currently oil well control and monitoring systems. This is the kind of thing he would love to check out. If we could give him a list of requirements he could probably build an automated control system that could monitor and adjust the system on the fly.

What would we need to monitor?

Amperage - trying to maintain a constant
Water Temp - keeping it below boiling
If we could read the output of gas somehow that would be good too.
Engine load/speed
Glow plug activity
What else?

We would either want amps to be dependant on gas output and engine load or just to remain at a constant. I think it would be best to make the amperage held a variable, perhaps adjusted by a dial.

Now I just got my truck and I haven't turned a wrench in way too long so I would need lots of assistance but I could use my truck as a tool for him to get the info he needs. I have a 2005 6L PSD and I would assume that this information could be gathered a similar way from some of the other vehicles like the 7.3, right?

 

I just talked to my friend and he is very interested. At this point I need to build a list of requirements and work with him on some flow charting and I would really appreciate any input any of you could provide. Once we have a needs analysis completed he will be able to estimate the parts required for the controller and the time investment required and come up with a ballpark cost on it.

So, any information that you can share at this point would be extremely helpful.

Thanks!

Barry

 

Do you think the 3" pipe design will provide enough output? What output are you expecting?

Would you be willing to share the origional CAD files? This looks like a great place to start for me.

My only concern would be using only bolts down the center of the cell. Any bumping could cause the plates to flex and short. Not sure it is a huge deal but I think I would rather have two sets of bolts running through the plates to keep the spacing constant.

 

As far as expected output.....not really sure but I read somewhere that 1ltr. per minute was a good target and I think this should at least do that. My design holds a just over a gallon of water and with the surface area I have, I should be good. Still waiting to here on the quote for cutting the sheet metal so I can actually make and test the cell.

Absolutely......just pm me your email addy and I'll send it over in ADT2007 format. And that goes for anybody reading this.........

As far as movement within the cell, my tolerance's are pretty tight. I'm more worried about the assembly sliding into the pipe once put together. I've even thought I may need to grind the nylon nuts down a little for it to slide in......one day hopefully we will see! And plate flex I plan to look into that once they are cut. If they are fairly flexible then I planned to add another nylon bolt in the center. I would think that would be plenty in the short distance I have.

 

Ideally a controller would adjust output based on temperature so that it doesn't run away.An alarm would be good if it got too hot 190F.I'm not sure but I think that the output is controlled by the current. As the system heats up, it draws more current causing it to heat up causing it to draw more current. You get the idea. A vicious circle leading to vaporization of the electrolye probably over filling the bubbler overflowing it into the engine. NOT GOOD! An electronic controller could also relieve the sress on the relays.

 

Contrary to the rumors, I did not blow up the East side of Tampa. Wasn't me. I have been busy with other things and haven't read up on all the 5 pages of post since I was gone.... But I definately give up on Drano. Probably a great electrolyte...in fact it is. But what else is in it bothers me. I will be visiting ACE tomorrow.

Dave, I built my unit exactly like a smack unit except I used 18" of PVC instead of 12". I plan on making a 1200 mile trip soon and wanted the extra volume.

Right now I have 8 teaspoons of baking soda to a gallon of water in the unit. When I first turned it on I was drawing about 10 amps and producing 1L per 3 1/2 minutes. It has been running 40 minutes with no increase in amperage. I am going to let her run as long as I can.

What amp meter are you guys using? The only thing I could find at the parts store was a -60 to +60 with marks every 30 amps. I want something more accurate than that.

Ok Be Safe

 

Gumboluvr, just remember that your baking soda will break down and you will end up with Sodium Hydroxide, a caustic liquid. Be careful handling it.
I'm going to use one out of a large battery charger. A friend burned his down. I don't think accuracy is that critical as long as the unit doesn't get too hot.

 

Dave S, I can see why you're so interested in HOH.Check out BoB Boyce's website. He'll sell you one of his 100LPM units for $1500. At the rate you burn fuel, payback should take 2 weeks of heavy digging. I don't know if he has any satisfaction guarantee. You might want to check it out.

 

I found that a 1/2" plastic pipe is real close to 5/8" dia. This means, you can drill a 5/8 dia hole in the side of your electrolyser and stick a short piece of pipe in an elbow on one end of the main tank . Do the same at the other end connect the elbows with pipe and let the system thermosyphon to cool it. You could put 8 or 9 cooling tubes on your unit like they do on the old style transformers. Use clear tubing on one and you have a sight tube. The only thing is you have to have both ends of the tubes in the electrolyte.

 

I found some LYE at Lowes, in their plumbing department. 2 lb $7.89.

 

OK, so for sure we want to measure Temp and Amperage. We want a shutdown of the system if we hit xF which will be too hot. What is too hot? We also want a variable resistor controlled by the system to keep XAmps running through the system. I would like to see the Amps a user selectable option.

I see some kind of optional input that would be selectable to sense an open or closed circuit. This could be used for your own glow plug relay or some other control. All the controls would be connected to external relays to do the dirty work.

Is there anything else I'm missing?

He probably has something but does anyone suggest something to use for temperature measurement? I assume we want something non-metallic. Perhaps plastic coated?

Would we want this to have a display or is this a behind-the-dash, set it and leave it type of device? The problem with including a display is it would drive up the cost. Speaking of cost, what is the limit people would be willing to spend on components? I think he would like to make this a marketable product but of course he would need satisfied customers, at cost.

The breaking point of cost is important to help him pick components.

I appreciate any input!

Thanks,

Barry

 

Hi Folks

I've been following this tread and I have got a 10,000 dollar question for any or all. Has any one tried to see what volume of gas is actually needed to make a combustion difference? I would like to get a general number of liters needed and then build up from there. I am sure the more the better ( because in theory a most combustion engines sould run off straight Hydrogen let alone H + O ), but what is the magic number that it starts to make a difference? How would one go about finding that number?

 

I've never seen a magic number. A little bit improves, But at which point it becomes the primary fuel is not known or at least not published. There have been reports of pistons being melted in gas engines by starting them before retarding the timing. I am thinking that using the glow plugs to moniter the combustion temperature might be a good may to find out where to stop increasing the concentration of HHO.

 

Thanks for the image.

I'm still really worried about the small space at the ends of the plates, especially the longest center plates. I suppose an intermittent short at that point will have minimal effect on the whole system but any short will change the Amperage draw on the system.

I'm thinking that expanding to a 4" system and having 2 sets of bolts. I'm too lazy to draw it in chicken scratch so something like this:

----------------------------------
|----------------------------------|
|----x---------------------x-------|
|----------------------------------|
|----------------------------------|
|----x---------------------x-------|
|----------------------------------|
-----------------------------------

Where x is the nylon bolt running through the plates.

 

The only negative to going to 4" is space and it can't hurt to have the extra support. But I'm thinking once everything is sandwiched together we should be good. But I will not know for sure until after assembly. Still yet to be determined..........