I'm with WAYNEBO as to hearing about the mileage or power gains from these units. Does anybody know how much can be gained, what size unit for a 7.3 and how long do they go between refills. Everything about this thread is great and it seems very doable. I hope Dave gets his staged unit up and working, so he can answer all the unanswered questions.

 

We aren't realy sure for the most part. Thats kinda why i started this thread I don't think most of us belive the numbers some people are throwing around but do relize the theory behind it is viable. So as far as I know we are all doing trial and error to figure out what works and more importantantly what doesn't. "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work" Thomas Edison

 

That is what is great about this forum, so many smart and tinkering minds. The best way to spread knowledge is on this forum. People that are trying different things and are sharing the GOOD or BAD results with everyone. My father always said that a smart man is ONE THAT PROFITS FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS. We all make mistakes, so when we talk about them, others can try another aproach or modify that one.

 

Well I finally got a chance to play again around 7pm......I reconnected all the wires and wired the amp meter properly and installed a 30amp fuse inline at the battery and started playing. First I tried no baking soda and I was drawing around 10amp so I added 1tps of baking soda and the meter increased to around 15, so I added one more and my amp meter was just over the 20amp mark on a 20amp meter. Very quickly the water started to look like it does on the pic......yucky and the foam began rising slowly to the top! I was about 2-3 inches below the top when I started. Also for as many little bubble and the occasional big bubbles that were produced I didn't seem to get anything out the hose. I'm really at a loss at the moment and I'm not sure what to try next. But it really looks like my all-thread rod us busted..........any thoughts on this? I have more pics posted on the page before this one if anybody missed them. Thanks

 

What sort of plating did the rods have on them? Is there any copper wire that is submerged in the water?

I did a quick test a long time ago with some stainless steel scrap in an ice cream bucket. Ran it for several minutes without any discoloration of the water. Output was low, but it was clean.

 

The rods are from Lowe's "Steel Works" Allthread-Plated 5/16"-18x3'-0" I have no idea what the plating is.........Parkland suggested to run it for an hour or so changing the water out to try to burn off the coating. I'm going to give that a try.

 

you will have to use Stainless. any thing that is plated or suseptable to rust will not work.

FWIW, there is a dairy farm near me that has over 500 cows, they collect the methane from the manure and burn it in a modified 3406 cat for electricity. thats 500 cows worth of manure!!!!!!!, producing enough methane to power an engine roughly twice the size of ours...... dont expect to run your enigine on this stuff, just a supliment to slightly better milage.

Diesel Rod

 

You mean I can't use any metal for testing? I did not expect it to last forever and it my concept worked I planned to change the rods to SS. I just did not want to invest the $100 for the rods if it didn't work. Heck Parkland who started a thread in another section made his out of metal coat hangers and he got decent mileage out of them........

I'm getting another charger today from a buddy and I'm going to let it run for an hour or so monitor it and see if it will burn off the crap (oil, coating or whatever) and see what happens. At this point it can't hurt............

 

I think the dark coloration is from free iron that is disolving into the electrolyte. You should still get HHO. baking soda is not a good electrolyte. Realize that it will turn to sodium hydroxide, so be careful handling the liquid. It can cause chemical burns. You can prove what I've said by adding a little vinegar to the mix. If it foams then you still have baking soda. If it doesn't foam, you've got NaOH. Best wear goggles anytime you're playing with your setup just to be safe.

 

By the way, DrainO is mostly NaOH. I couldn't find KOH or NaOH around here so I had to settle for the DrainO. You might try stuffing a stainless scrub pad part way down your vertical tube to help breakup the foam.

 

Well I got to play again this afternoon.......it has run for about an hour with no baking soda. It seems that most of the foam is gone, but the water still turns green, most likely because of the metal. I flushed it really well and as you can see in the pic, the - rods are a grey color and the + rods are a brownish color.



So then I can a couple of tests w/ a 1.89l (2 quart) plastic bottle full of water upside down with the tube in it to see how fast it displaced the water. With 1tsp of bs it took 15min running @ 15amps. With 2tsp of bs it took 10min to fill running @ 20amps. Not as good of results as I was hoping but I was also using regular tap water as I went through 3gal of Culligan water the other day. I'm going to try again Sat or Sun the same test w/ our bottled water from Culligan. Hopefully I'll get better results. How much was it again a minute we need to make improvements in fuel mileage? I do not think I'm even close...............


Marianna....I know KOH is better to use, I just have not made it to the pool store to get some. Do you guys think it will produce more gas faster or is it just cleaner? Thanks

 

twtcad,
What size are your rods?

Like what is the diameter and how long is the section that is in the solution?

 

Are you guys using the wire coil method to generate hydrogen or are you using the plate method? I heard someone say once that the wire coil method is more efficient. If you are using the wire coil method what size of wire do you use? Also if you are using that method do you use an x made out of plexiglass to coil the wire around? the guys that i know that are doing this have had problems with the plexiglass melting so what should I use instead for a heat resistant insulator?

 

OK I have been reading more.
I think this diagram was on the smack booster page.



Basic description was 12 volt power applied to the red and blue outside plates.
The pairs of plates in the center were connected to each other electrically, but insulated from the adjoining pairs and the outside plates.

The explanation was that the electrical difference was 3 volts between each pair of plates, which reduced the amperage draw and the heat produced.

Looking at that drawing from an electrical point of view, there is no gas generated between the two plates of the pairs of plates.
So you are using 8 plates and only producing gas in 4 places.
According to his design specs, using 3 x 4 inch stainless wall blank plates he was producing 1.7 liters of gas per minute at 16 amps current draw.

So 12 sq. in. x 4 reaction sites would mean 48 sq. in. positive area and 48 sq. in. negative area for a total of 96 sq. in. producing 1.7 liters of HHO at 16 amps draw per minute.

Electrically, you could have the same effect with single plates in the center where the pairs are in his drawing.

This drawing should produce the same gas, has the same 4 reaction sites and uses 3 less plates and takes up less room.



Since the weather is going to be nice, and I have a three day weekend I plan on at least having a working generator before the weekend is over.

twtcad, I think if you change the wiring on your generator so you have power going in something like this,



you will be able to increase the amount of electrolyte in the solution, control your current draw better and produce more gas.

Just looking at your pictures I guessed you have 12 rods (don't work out right for the drawing I did electrically) and they were about 16 inches in the solution and 3/8" diameter.
That would give you a surface area of 113 sq. in. total, which is more area than the smack booster has.
So you should be producing more gas.

As for the plated rods you used, probably the plating is causing the green color when reacting with the baking soda.

I have yet to read anyone saying baking soda is good to use on any of the HHO sites I have looked at.
Everyone says baking soda and table salt are both bad for the generator, and table salt causes chlorine gas to be produced which is bad for people.

Drano I am not sure about, it has several other chemicals in it like aluminum.

Red Devil lye should have less other chemicals and be rather easy to find, but I have not looked for it recently.

 

rkurkowski,
Welcome to FTE and the IDI diesel forum.

I am building mine out of stainless steel plates.

twtcad built his out of steel all thread rods.

Another member used two coils of stainless screen.

And if I remember right, another member used two sizes of stainless pipes, one inside the other.