400 HP Engine Build - Input Needed
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
@cleatus12r I was considering the idea of using alternative sensors for MAP and EBP that would allow more accurate OBDII readings of the pressures encountered with higher powered 7.3s. Is rescaling those inputs in tuning a practical route to take, or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,094
Likes: 4,705
From: Henderson, NV
@cleatus12r I was considering the idea of using alternative sensors for MAP and EBP that would allow more accurate OBDII readings of the pressures encountered with higher powered 7.3s. Is rescaling those inputs in tuning a practical route to take, or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
Cody, please tell me you’ll code an error message that reads “Danger To Manifold” in there somewhere.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
@FordTruckNoob Actually it's primarily motivated by being cheap; the isspro boost gauge is 170 dollars, don't really want to add an EBP gauge, excessive gauge pods are costly and aren't "stealth" enough for my liking... if I could have accurate boost and EBP readings from the PCM that would save me money. Only two physical gauges I'd "need" would be pyro and fuel pressure, with the rest on the tablet.
I don't think they'd offer much advantage over the stock sensors in terms of tuning capability.
I don't think they'd offer much advantage over the stock sensors in terms of tuning capability.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
Sorry if I'm being unclear; I already use a tablet and forscan/torque to display that information, the problem comes with it not being reliable outside the sensor limits. I want to see whether it's workable to use sensors with bigger range and rescale in tuning vs having physical gauges for those parameters.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,782
Likes: 2,142
From: N.GA Mountains
I cannot see why 0.009” would make any difference on engine to transmission adapter. It is not a rigid member and would easily conform to the block/transmission. If your flexplate was not compromised, I don’t think you’re fixing anything?
on edit: the torque converter moves close to 1/2”? when engine is bolted to transmission. Plenty of room to deck the adapter flat if desired.
There was a short time when some tuners were using the 6.0 MAP sensor and scaling tuning to make it work. My understanding is this added detail (higher MAP pressure) does not change fueling, etc and was therefore dropped as an option.
My guess is the AA (or Cody) could make this work for you, but i don’t think it will be more economical than a gauge and not sure how much more you can read... (I support your goal of ‘less stuff’/stealth)
on edit: the torque converter moves close to 1/2”? when engine is bolted to transmission. Plenty of room to deck the adapter flat if desired.
There was a short time when some tuners were using the 6.0 MAP sensor and scaling tuning to make it work. My understanding is this added detail (higher MAP pressure) does not change fueling, etc and was therefore dropped as an option.
My guess is the AA (or Cody) could make this work for you, but i don’t think it will be more economical than a gauge and not sure how much more you can read... (I support your goal of ‘less stuff’/stealth)
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,094
Likes: 4,705
From: Henderson, NV
Sorry if I'm being unclear; I already use a tablet and forscan/torque to display that information, the problem comes with it not being reliable outside the sensor limits. I want to see whether it's workable to use sensors with bigger range and rescale in tuning vs having physical gauges for those parameters.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,647
Likes: 891
From: north of Minneapolis, MN
He's a machinist....he can make new ones. For that matter, have him/her measure them...I'll make them.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,415
Likes: 2,911
From: Reed Point, MT
Little trick for next time:
Drill 1/4" holes in the block behind the dowels and use a drift and a hammer to get them out. No structural damage in doing this and you don't f-up the vice grip jaws.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
Honeywell has an 6bar (87PSI) sensor that I think would work well for EBP: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...HzaYt15g%3D%3D
And a 60PSI sensor that should suffice for boost: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...o%2Fo7RQ%3D%3D
Got the rod bolts from International today and delivered them and the girdle plate/main studs to the auto machinist. Hopefully should know what size pistons to get tomorrow.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 2,330
From: WV
Boost is not a critical watch item. So if you’re not picky you could pick up a cheap mechanical gauge for $50 or so. I don’t want mismatched gauges myself, but just wanted to share the option.
I have a concern about using a MAP sensor outside of factory range. The PCM uses this in its table for fueling from what I’ve read. Please don’t take my word for it, but do get an expert like Cody to chime in before committing to the plan. I image you could get someone to write a modified table for your sensor but that could limit your tuner options.
I have a concern about using a MAP sensor outside of factory range. The PCM uses this in its table for fueling from what I’ve read. Please don’t take my word for it, but do get an expert like Cody to chime in before committing to the plan. I image you could get someone to write a modified table for your sensor but that could limit your tuner options.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
Not critical no but it's something I want to monitor. Basically I can fit two gauges on the steering column which is a place I consider unobtrusive and easy to read at a glance. Fuel pressure and EGT would take those spots, and I'm not keen on having gauges elsewhere in more obvious locations. Ideally, everything else needs to be on a OBDII on a tablet that I can remove from the truck.
I definitely wouldn't install different sensors without those inputs being remapped in tuning, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. I've send an email to AA about the idea. Am waiting to hear back.
I definitely wouldn't install different sensors without those inputs being remapped in tuning, that sounds like a recipe for disaster. I've send an email to AA about the idea. Am waiting to hear back.
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,415
Likes: 2,911
From: Reed Point, MT
@cleatus12r I was considering the idea of using alternative sensors for MAP and EBP that would allow more accurate OBDII readings of the pressures encountered with higher powered 7.3s. Is rescaling those inputs in tuning a practical route to take, or would it be more trouble than it's worth?
From a tuning standpoint, it's something that can be done but is a waste of time just to look at numbers on a gauge.
Matt at Gearhead was pushing the 6.0 sensor stuff years ago, not me. If there's a reason to limit fuel above 12 PSI (maybe sled pulling or drag racing with a ridiculous turbo or stupid-huge injectors), then it might be something to look at from a functional standpoint......not to see certain boost or drive pressure.
The problem with going to a wider-range sensor and in this case a sensor that reads 3 bars above 0 MAP instead of having a 3-bar sensor that wastes a third of its range to read vacuum (on a diesel, no less), is that resolution suffers when dealing with a PCM that doesn't have all that many data points. Not to mention that the person doing the tuning will have to have a sensor, a 5-volt power supply, and a bunch of time to actually map the sensor's voltage rise vs. pressure.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 425
The formula specified by the datasheet wouldn't be sufficient for this?