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I really have to a write up on how I made my stand, but I talked of options earlier. B, you can use the lower stator/grounding threaded holes, but up top you could use three or four of the 8mm bolts if that makes you comfortable. But also remember, you lifted the engine out with four 8mm bolts, and even one 10.9 8mm bolt has the clamp load of over 8,000lbs, lifting capacity of ~1,000 lbs. As long as its the arms that are taking the side loading, not the bolts themselves.
Based on the hone image, I'm not sure he has a ridge to worry about.
which 8mm bolts at the top would be best to support the short block with? I don’t think I can attach it to the bottom stator bolts because I will need to pull the bed plate out.
do you think that carbon ridge will damage the pistons or rings coming out? Maybe I need to knock it down with a Brillo pad and solvent ?
I would start with a rag and the solvent. Like I said I managed to clean the tops
of the pistons off with just a rag and acetone. So to start with I would not use
anything that is an abrasive.
God this is bringing up old thoughts of why not to do it this way - Why I went two post.
The only way I can see doing a front mount, taking the bed plate off. Arms have to be welded up so the bolts are only used as a clamping force, IMO. Two bolts per arm.
Here are the bolt locations I would use.
You can put the front cover on last, letting the engine hang from the bracket and engine crane. Install the balancer once the engine is in-frame.
God this is bringing up old thoughts of why not to do it this way - Why I went two post.
The only way I can see doing a front mount, taking the bed plate off. Arms have to be welded up so the bolts are only used as a clamping force, IMO. Two bolts per arm.
Here are the bolt locations I would use.
You can put the front cover on last, letting the engine hang from the bracket and engine crane. Install the balancer once the engine is in-frame.
I'm not trying to sidetrack the post but since this has been talked about a few times in this one I'll address it.
Why doesn't anyone just recommend to do the easiest thing when it comes to cleaning carbon off of parts and just use a drill with a wire brush attached to it?
I've never figured out why nobody talks about this or almost never does I see a lot of people talk about or show videos using the abrasive discs (not necessarily in this post but in all kinds of other videos and so on) but the wire wheeled brush gets no love. Why?
I've never agreed with using a abrasive wheels (discs) for anything due to them causing too much damage to parts that you can't typically fix. And a lot of people know this as well. Most people don't realize that aluminum is soft and they end up causing damage because they are careless.
With a wire brush on a wheel being powered by some sort of drill, I've never been able to take off more material from metal whether it's cast, aluminum, or some other metal and only been able to take off gasket material and nothing else. UNLESS someone was to let the drill run in the same spot for probably 5 minutes on end or longer, I don't know how it's even possible to take off any more material. The wire from the wheel "bends" as it's going over the metal so there is almost no chance to take anything off that other than material that is NOT metal.
Perhaps I've just never gotten carried away when I've cleaned parts and other people are but I've seen how others get carried away even with just using the abrasive discs on a spot for more than a few seconds. At least with a wire wheel brush, it's more "forgiving" so if you do go a little bit longer in one area, it's "likely" not going to be a catastrophic failure that may end up requiring a completely new timing cover, block, or head.
I've used stiffer wire brush wheels that are a regular metal but I think I typically use brass ones that are more "flexible" or "soft".
To me, this would be the quickest way to get ride of that carbon build up at the top of the bores and not worry about taking any metal off. Obviously, you don't need to spend 10 minutes going over one spot but a few seconds around the top of each bore and it should be clean.
Someone tell me why the wire wheel brush gets no love? I've used it for likely 30 plus years now without issues. I've cleaned piston skirts and ring lands with them, heads, timing covers, engine surfaces, various mounting brackets including brake parts, and just about anything else I can think of without issues. Why are people making more work for themselves using scraping tools and razors and so on when a wire wheel brush on drill can have the same thing done in minutes or maybe even seconds?
I'm just wondering why "in general" whenever I see discussions about how to remove gasket material or surface engine decks or head surfaces, it's almost as if nobody every uses a wire wheel brush on a drill. It's like it's forgotten or maybe even forbidden. I'm not saying I never ever see people mention it but I always see people talk about using some sort of cleaner like brake cleaner or carb cleaner and a razor or flat scraping tool or the abrasive discs (cringe). I hardly ever see people talk about wire wheels brushes for drills or rotary tools. If I'm watching YouTube vids, it seems like I always see people using those abrasive discs. Even some well respected techs use them and I can't figure out why.
I understand that if used properly they "can" work well but I've almost never seen them used and not take off too much material on say an aluminum head or intake or timing cover. Even when done very lightly or gently, I ALWAYS see more material removed from the aluminum than there should be and you can tell by the swirl marks.
I'm just wondering why "in general" whenever I see discussions about how to remove gasket material or surface engine decks or head surfaces, it's almost as if nobody every uses a wire wheel brush on a drill. It's like it's forgotten or maybe even forbidden. I'm not saying I never ever see people mention it but I always see people talk about using some sort of cleaner like brake cleaner or carb cleaner and a razor or flat scraping tool or the abrasive discs (cringe). I hardly ever see people talk about wire wheels brushes for drills or rotary tools. If I'm watching YouTube vids, it seems like I always see people using those abrasive discs. Even some well respected techs use them and I can't figure out why.
I understand that if used properly they "can" work well but I've almost never seen them used and not take off too much material on say an aluminum head or intake or timing cover. Even when done very lightly or gently, I ALWAYS see more material removed from the aluminum than there should be and you can tell by the swirl marks.
I shall give the wire wheel some love in your honor!
Because people take approaches to the extreme. In one Ford tech's video, he mentions using a bar to scrape across the surface to remove material. Ford put out a TSB that changes what tool you can use to scrape off debris with a 6.0L because, with head warranty returns, they saw field issues on examination. Aftermarket (3M) promotes abrasive discs, which open a wide range of variability to the manufacturer-level service engineer. You were a Ford tech at multiple dealerships; what did your training say?
It depends on the level of training, and mechanics often don't get deep into the machining arts, understanding the totality of surface finish, let alone Ra, etc. Mechanics without that training don't understand with the more modern gaskets how precise the surfaces need to be; it is no longer the 60s.
I'm fine using a SuperScraper on a block or head deck; some people need a brass scraper. However, those take time, as does using a razor blade; again, they are not approved and are just as time-consuming. I find that a razor blade can do more damage than a SuperScraper due to the lack of control. Guys that don't have the patients go for abrasive discs, which work well on composite gaster surfaces - you can get away with it. But even when they are using ScotchBrite discs, often they don't realize the fibers are coated with silicon carbide. This ceramic material is only surpassed by diamond, cubic boron nitride, and boron carbide. I use ScotchBrite pads to absorb the wet gasket debris off the surfaces by hand, not unlike using steel wool, which by hand could be used too. But all of this is with iron surfaces. Aluminum gets you into a new world.
Wire wheels are old school, not thought of too much with the development of quick-change discs.
You were a Ford tech at multiple dealerships; what did your training say? - Honestly, I don't know that I remember there being much in the training about what you could and could not use for trying to clean surfaces of blocks, heads, timing covers, and so on. But, I'm sure it was in there. And it may have been in there but I just didn't pay attention too much to that part and just skimmed over that part. I don't know. I'm not saying it was the Ford training or manuals or online videos (I watched a few) that did say this for sure but I just know that I remember somewhere along the lines that it was stated (somewhere) NOT to use the abrasive discs such as the ones that 3M puts out. For all I know, it could have been another tech that had been working many years in the industry or some older videos I watched or maybe a magazine article I read when I used to read about modifying cars and engines so it may have been an engine building article somewhere. Whether they were small, medium, or large sized discs didn't matter. Obviously, there are different versions of the disc as far as the abrasiveness factor so you can choose different ones. But, I just remember they were basically a "no no" because either people used them improperly and spent too much time in one area and took too much material off or, the fibers from the discs got inside areas that they weren't supposed to and later caused issues such as down in intakes or inside combustion chambers and then in between piston rings, or other areas that weren't good. I know I should have read more thoroughly and paid more attention and I'm sure I was thinking I was paying attention back then when maybe I did miss something here and there. But, I can't recall for sure now. I'm sure it was there but like I said, I may have skimmed over that part. I guess shame on me.
It depends on the level of training, and mechanics often don't get deep into the machining arts, understanding the totality of surface finish, let alone Ra, etc. - I'm sure even you agree and I think you even mentioned it a time or two in your videos or else in a comment on here that your level of detail on these things is likely more than the majority of people doing repair work. Whether personally or in a professional setting, I'm sure it is more than most in either setting. Although I went to school for automotive, I don't know if we covered as much about Ra and surface finish. I went for the first year which was more about the diagnostics and drivability with emissions and electronics and that and the next year was for engine, transmissions, rearends, and the "heavy" portion that I didn't get into. So, perhaps that would have been covered in that portion. I don't know. Maybe the part about the 3M (or other brand) of abrasive discs was mentioned by my teacher and I just remember it from there. I don't know and I suppose it doesn't really matter now.
The thing with the wire wheel brush is that I don't know if I really recall it being "taught" to me. Maybe it was but I think I just either read somewhere that it was better or personally figured out from cleaning material off of different metals with it that I could use a wire wheel brush and it wouldn't harm anything outside of taking either gasket material off or rust depending on how thick the metal was or what it was made out of (aluminum vs. cast and so on). And I know I recall trying to get something clean and it taking a while even with a wire wheel brush so perhaps that told me that a mistake of trying to spend more than 10 or 20 seconds in one spot wouldn't "typically" end up in a catastrophic disaster as say the abrasive discs would. I could spend 3 to 5 seconds trying to take some material off and if it worked, then mission accomplished. If not, then I repeated until it was clean but luckily, it wouldn't be damaged.
The bad thing about using the abrasive discs is it "seems" (to me anyway) that it goes good to extremely bad in an instant. One second you're spinning the drill or rotary tool trying to get material off and just lightly going along and nothing comes off or it's barely coming off. So, the next second you decide to put just a little bit more pressure on the tool to get it to put more pressure on the surface and in that second of usage, now you have a gouge in the surface of whatever you were working on. Maybe not a bad one but enough that it may cause a gasket seal problem like on a head or timing cover or intake. It's just so extreme and so quick how it can go from good to total failure. With a wire wheel brush, it seems like you have to actually try to do something wrong.
Mechanics without that training don't understand with the more modern gaskets how precise the surfaces need to be; it is no longer the 60s. I guess I don't know that I got "training" on the subject. I think I read about it either in the magazines I read about building engines or maybe I did read it in one of the books in school or our teacher mentioned it or something. Perhaps I did read about it or watch a video at Ford and it was there that I got that "training". Ehh....whatever I guess.
Wire wheels are old school, not thought of too much with the development of quick-change discs.
I never really thought of the wire wheel brushes taking that long really. I've figured that if something is on a surface that is that "chunky" that a wire wheel brush can't get the chunks off, then I probably need to use something like a screwdriver or scraper to knock the larger chunks off and let the wire wheel do the work from there which doesn't typically take that long. But, for scenarios of cleaning rusty parts and so on is not really where I was going with this conversation for the most part. I'm thinking more along the lines of cleaning mating surfaces for gaskets for heads to blocks, intakes, throttle bodies, timing covers to blocks, exhaust manifolds, and other things. To me, it doesn't take long at all to just use a wire wheel brush and the results are better (in my opinion and experience) than anything you can get with an abrasive disc since it won't take more material off than necessary.
But again, maybe it's because I "typically" use a brass wire wheel or a metal one that is not so firm or harsh that it would take material off. I don't go "full bore" on a surface anyway and try to get a "feel" for how much material is being taken off while using the tool to see how much pressure needs to be applied so there's not too much.
Brennan, From the computer view, they don't look bad for your mileage from what I've seen of other 6.0s. It looks like some debris went through the bearings at some time.
Brennan, From the computer view, they don't look bad for you mileage from what I've seen of other 6.0s. It looks like some debris went through the bearings at some time.
Good to hear im taking the stuff down to the machine shop Friday. Found a place that has the setup to handle these diesel blocks. Hoping they can do a polish on the crank journals, hone my walls, and clean up my block/covers/parts. Ill get my pistons out tonight. Hoping I don't find any bad scoring or wear. So far so good. the previous owner must have taken care of this engine. its very clean on the inside no dark varnish.
250,000 mile bores 250,000 mile bores Piston skirts look good Crankshaft looks decent small ridges mag need to get turned .010 we shall see Very small grooves barely able to feel them. Probably needs a .010 grind.
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