That was a good summation, eldrige, you could have left me out if you wanted to.

Unless someone casts iron heads as KDD did in aluminum, incorporating the stiffening ribs, I'm still not sure of the resistance to deflection. Jarad and I stated our cases on the org about his aluminum heads, But I feel a low mileage head that has been seasoned is a good choice. Better than a new original or Chinese copy of the factory head. The 20mm head is what I would only use, o-ringed if I need the added comfort and using tunes. I can only state that up to 75k; the 20mm head appears reusable. I haven't seen 100k, 150k, 200k ....

As some of you may know, I've sold lifting brackets through my YT channel. I may do the same with side brackets for a two-post engine stand. After making a two-post engine stand out of 8020 aluminum extrusions, it's the only stand I would ever use again. Of course, they can be made from 8020, but that's expensive unless you have all the extrusions as I did. You can weld/bolt together two harbor freight 1,000lb stands using those types of side brackets. You can even make a twin post stand out of wood, 4x4 for the columns, 2x4 for the horizontal legs, and triangular plywood to stiffen the columns in the two directions.

But people have also used single post 2,000lb stands. You bolt up from the front of the engine, and when needed to work on the front, use your engine crane to flip it or take it off the stand and suspend it with the engine crane for the last work.

For No. 2 SPF 4x4s that are 4 feet tall, the compression strength is 14,477 pounds; at 2 feet tall, it's about 21,100 pounds. I think two can handle a 990 lb engine. I do a lot of work with wood.

 

I may take you up on those lifting brackets. Labor wise it seems like pulling the engine could be accomplished in 8-10 hours? I am having a hard time figuring out how to use good. I may not get into the bottom end of the engine (TBD) but I would be great to do the rear seal and new lifters (preventative maintenance). Then doing the cylinder heads would be much much easier out of the cab.

Send me a PM if you can or email so we can talk about me purchasing a bracket kit from you. thanks jack

 

Well, I don't know if you're poking fun at me now with the "summation" comment but I'll assume you are. As you can read, I'm not sure it's really "summarized" and I'm typically not brief with my comments (unfortunately) but, I think it's hard to summarize what I typed because there's a lot of information to try to discuss.

As far as using your name or referencing you, I'm sorry if that wasn't okay but in spite of the possibility of maybe (not sure) some kind of "ish" disagreements on a few posts, I really respect your views and I think it's obvious you know your *****. At least from what I gather. I'm sure there are others that might know more on certain things but from watching your videos, it seems you've got a pretty good handle on many things with the 6.0. So, I feel you're worth referencing as are many others on here of course. It just so happens that your videos were the ones I watched so that's that.

As I typed, I DEFINITELY wasn't speaking "for you" and perhaps I'm misunderstanding / misinterpreting some of what you're explaining in your videos. Maybe me using the phrase "poor design" is not what you mean but to me, that's kind of what I'm getting. As you point out, the "stiffening ribs" or as I called them, "bridges" just aren't enough to prevent "tenting" (I'm assuming this is what you are referring to when you say "deflection"?). And so, I think that's just a bad design since they likely could have just simply used a little more material in certain areas and minimized or almost eliminated many of the issues. Obviously, having only 4 bolts per cylinder vs. the 6 or more that many other diesel engines use is not a good recipe for longevity or reliability. So, that's something that can't be changed now. But, at the very least, even if it would have added another 5 pounds (if that) per head, it would have been worth it if it was about trying to save 10 pounds over hundreds of thousands of engines with problems.

When you say Jarad and you stated your cases "on the org", what are referring to there with the word "org"? Are you meaning original design or a .org website or something else? Just trying to understand.

In your above comments, are you saying you would prefer a seasoned head that was in good condition over a brand new set of KDD heads? If so, why? I understand that there's a difference in metal since the KDD heads are aluminum vs. the stock cast (or whatever they actually used) but, wouldn't the KDD heads be even better than a good set of "seasoned" heads?

As far as the engine stand situation, I remember when we used to do service on the 7.3 such as rebuilds or whatever required engine removal and teardown, we used a standard engine stand. HOWEVER, I don't believe it was a "T" shaped (3 leg) stand and it was at the very least a "T" shaped stand with the additional leg on the front to make 4 legs. (But honestly, that was over 24 years ago now so maybe it was just a 3 leg) I think the 4 leg stands are "typically" rated for 1,000 pounds or maybe 1,200. But, of course, there could be some that "say" they're rated for that and they really aren't so it's obviously all in how good the materials are that actually go into the stand. Or, that is definitely the max rating. But, one thing we did was remove all of the accessories and other main components BEFORE putting it on the stand to try to minimize a safety issue of the engine falling and hurting someone during the process of teardown. I can't remember for sure, but we might have even taken the heads off prior to putting it on a stand as well. And although it was heavy, as long as you're either super careful by yourself or have assistance, you can rotate the engine on these stands. I know from experience. Although not easy with just one person, it's doable if you're "strong like ox" and can understand not to "push" on the engine and do more "lifting as you rotate so that you don't tip the whole thing over. But I wouldn't risk that and just get someone to help you if need be.

I just read that the 7.3 diesel weighed 920 pounds (dry weight) and I believe this includes accessories. The 6.0 weighs 966 by comparison so another 46 pounds (not really much) according to Google or Wikipedia. I know that these engines are definitely heavy so a person wants to have something sturdy to work on them. One thing that has to be considered though is that these weights are WITH accessories unless I'm understanding the weight determinations incorrectly. So, you start removing a power steering pump, A/C compressor, alternator, turbo, front brackets for the accessories, other odds and ends, and maybe at least the intake and exhaust manifolds and I don't think you're going to be much over 850 pounds if maybe 800. And if a person wanted to remove the heads, that's probably removing another what, 160 to maybe 200 pounds for both heads? (I don't know what the heads weigh but I thought I read they are 88 to 90 pounds each?)

Just my opinion but, I don't think people need to go out and invest time and money building specialized stands like some people do. And this is especially true if you're just going to be doing this repair once (hopefully anyway). If you were doing this on the regular or a few times a year, that might be different. I know TooManyToys made a stand and they are more than happy with their stand (I'm assuming although I think they did mention a few changes they would do if they were to do it again). That's fine. For them, I'm sure they wanted to do things a certain way and perhaps will use the stand more in the future so the time and money invested building the stand was and will be more than worth it. And if nothing else, it was a little "project" for them that they wanted to do anyway (I don't know).

I'M NOT SUGGESTING to buy some piece of crap stand and set the whole engine on it and try to rotate the engine during teardown and expect there to not be issues. I know these engines are heavy. So, of course someone should be careful if they need to put them on a stand. And again, at the very least, take EVERYTHING off you can and probably even the heads PRIOR TO putting it on a stand. I think you can look around your local Facebook groups or Marketplace or Craigslist and find a good used 4 leg stand for $100 or less. I see 4 leg stands going for $40 to $50 all the time that look to be used maybe once or twice or never. I've occasionally seen them for free even (crazy I know).

 

I wasn’t making fun of you; I didn’t have a problem with you using my name. I’m not going to go through all the rest.

 

Do you guys think I can make a temporary wooden stand like a cradle to put it into? I really just want to be able to pull rear cover for the seal and rear lifter replacement.

 

Yeah, there are examples of people doing that. You can utilize the existing engine mounting brackets, others have made a craddle that supports off the oil pan bolting areas. I would notch so the oil pan bent up flange itself is not taking a load.

 

are you able to contact me about purchasing one of your lifting brackets ?

 

We can't do it in the public forum, but in PM's.

I'll add in an early video which does not have any purchase info.

 

The more I think about it, does the 6.0 also suffer issues from high compression? We know the lack of clamping is real. I see a modern trend in turbo charged high output diesels to be around 16-16.5:1 but the 6.0 is 18:1 with only 4 14mm bolts holding the head down. I wonder if lowering the compression would help?

 

You would have to change all the engine programing to do that.

I don't think the lack of clamping is real. The values of clamping force (Preload) of the stock bolts and the ARP studs are close, and ARP told me when I asked that their studs are slightly higher than the stock bolts. The specified torque is 210lb-ft, wherein their own literature they state the "standard" torque for a fastener of that size is 205lb-ft. In fact, if we tested the used 6.0L bolts we might find an even higher clamping force according to an engineer I talked to at a bolt testing lab. When I did my calculations I used the minimum values and he told me for a controlled fastener like what head bolts typically are, they test above the minimums.

 

Well my current plan is now to pull the engine from the front.

new cylinder heads
Studs
Felpro gaskets
new push rods
new lifters
rear main seal/cover gasket
bed plate seals
oil pan/adapter seals
valve cover seals
oil cooler
reseal the HPOP piping with new O rings
EGR delete

now the question is that if I’m this deep, should I replace the main and connecting rod bearings? Cam bearings? Piston rings? I have 250,000 miles but not excessive oil consumption or blow by. Where do I stop? I want to maximize my efforts. Hoping my cam
Is happy as the truck sounds fine.

 

I would disassemble the engine and then choose the components that will be renewed. The cam bearings can usually be reused and left installed.

 

good point. I don’t see a lot off bottom end failures on these 6.0 but with 250,000 I imagine there is some wear. Bearings are cheap. Probably new rod bolts. I guess we shall see. Hopefully the bores look good.

 

The rod bolts can be reused, and they are captured unless you are hyper.

 

Also they are cracked rods so don't mix the caps up.