03+ - Brake Dust Update
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
Originally posted by daveplot
I haven't seen anything like that, all the other Ford pads still contain Asbestos.
I haven't seen anything like that, all the other Ford pads still contain Asbestos.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
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From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
Re: new pad kit
Originally posted by shpedly
Just my observations on the "black plague"issue. I bought a new 04 Expedition on the the 31st of Dec, after 2 days of driving, the front wheels were almost completely black. I had heard about the complaints out there, but had no idea it was this bad. Something needed to be done and here is what i know so far. I took the Expe back to my shop (I'm a german car dealer and service center) and put it in the air and removed the wheels to examine the brakes. For what its worth I was very impressed with the massive size of the components used in this system, especially the rear rotors and the dual piston front calipers. Normally you dont see this heavy a duty set up in anything less than a 1 ton+ truck chassis. We removed the front pads and saw they are manufactured by Jurid. Jurid is a very well known supplier to european car manufacturers and this is the first time I have ever seen their product on a domestic vehicle. Excessive brake dusting has been a common complaint among German car owners for years and what the orginal "kleen wheels" were designed to fit. In an effort to save both weight and cost, the size and thickness of most German car rotors have been greatly reduced, so much so, that they can almost never be resurfaced without bringing them below spec and of course needing to be replaced. The only way to get a reasonable service life out of these rotors is to use a very "soft" brake pad with very little metallic content and that is exactly what the problem is with the Expe pads. This line from Service article 04-1-1 says it all. "The brake linings on the 2003 2004 Expedtion/Navigator veheicles are designed to interact with the brake rotors in such a way as to keep the rotors smooth, minimizing rotor runout and thickness variation." Just a fancy way of saying "We use a very soft pad to extend the life of the rotors". I dont see why Ford saw this as neccessary because these rotors are huge. A call to all of my parts suppliers revealed no aftermarket brake pads available as yet. Well as most know by now, the new brake pad kit is available, the correct part number is 4L-1Z-2001-BA beginning with 4L and not 41 as I have seen posted before. If your vehicle was produced after 12/18/03 you should have the new pads already. Mine were delivered to the shop and installed today at 320 miles. If your Expe was produced before June of 03 you will also need 2 additional kits for the latest springs and guide pins. I will post the part #'s if anybody needs them. The pad kit consists of front and rear pads and an install guide. The new pads are noticeably heavier and of very high metallic content. I scrubed the wheels and have only driven a little bit today but so far it looks promising. I will give udate in a couple days. I havent had the time or inclination to argue with Ford over this matter and bought the kit for $230 minus my 20% shop discount = $187. I wanted the new pads installed before the rotors started to wear and score. Word of warning these new high metallic pads installed on old worn rotors are a recipe for noise and more noise. If anybody manages to get this covered under warranty please post it. Ed
Just my observations on the "black plague"issue. I bought a new 04 Expedition on the the 31st of Dec, after 2 days of driving, the front wheels were almost completely black. I had heard about the complaints out there, but had no idea it was this bad. Something needed to be done and here is what i know so far. I took the Expe back to my shop (I'm a german car dealer and service center) and put it in the air and removed the wheels to examine the brakes. For what its worth I was very impressed with the massive size of the components used in this system, especially the rear rotors and the dual piston front calipers. Normally you dont see this heavy a duty set up in anything less than a 1 ton+ truck chassis. We removed the front pads and saw they are manufactured by Jurid. Jurid is a very well known supplier to european car manufacturers and this is the first time I have ever seen their product on a domestic vehicle. Excessive brake dusting has been a common complaint among German car owners for years and what the orginal "kleen wheels" were designed to fit. In an effort to save both weight and cost, the size and thickness of most German car rotors have been greatly reduced, so much so, that they can almost never be resurfaced without bringing them below spec and of course needing to be replaced. The only way to get a reasonable service life out of these rotors is to use a very "soft" brake pad with very little metallic content and that is exactly what the problem is with the Expe pads. This line from Service article 04-1-1 says it all. "The brake linings on the 2003 2004 Expedtion/Navigator veheicles are designed to interact with the brake rotors in such a way as to keep the rotors smooth, minimizing rotor runout and thickness variation." Just a fancy way of saying "We use a very soft pad to extend the life of the rotors". I dont see why Ford saw this as neccessary because these rotors are huge. A call to all of my parts suppliers revealed no aftermarket brake pads available as yet. Well as most know by now, the new brake pad kit is available, the correct part number is 4L-1Z-2001-BA beginning with 4L and not 41 as I have seen posted before. If your vehicle was produced after 12/18/03 you should have the new pads already. Mine were delivered to the shop and installed today at 320 miles. If your Expe was produced before June of 03 you will also need 2 additional kits for the latest springs and guide pins. I will post the part #'s if anybody needs them. The pad kit consists of front and rear pads and an install guide. The new pads are noticeably heavier and of very high metallic content. I scrubed the wheels and have only driven a little bit today but so far it looks promising. I will give udate in a couple days. I havent had the time or inclination to argue with Ford over this matter and bought the kit for $230 minus my 20% shop discount = $187. I wanted the new pads installed before the rotors started to wear and score. Word of warning these new high metallic pads installed on old worn rotors are a recipe for noise and more noise. If anybody manages to get this covered under warranty please post it. Ed
Sorry my friend, but your response is 180° from what is going on here. An aggressive compound will wear the rotors true. That's iron oxide (not rust) coating those wheels.
My company supplies Mercedes along with other European, Asian and American manufacturers.
Sounds more like you work for Jurid.
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Salisbury, MD
Originally posted by fmtrvt
That is incorrect. Ford has been the most aggressive insuring that there are no haz mats in the brake materials. Ford removed all asbestos linings from OE pads and shoes 15 years ago. Their does still carry the Tox warning however.
That is incorrect. Ford has been the most aggressive insuring that there are no haz mats in the brake materials. Ford removed all asbestos linings from OE pads and shoes 15 years ago. Their does still carry the Tox warning however.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 544
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From: Jersey Shore Not Seaside!
All materials we have supplied to Ford (and any other company) for years have not had asbestos, but still have the asbestos warning. Ford has been proactive in keeping out haz materials.
Last edited by fmtrvt; Jan 16, 2004 at 11:26 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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How disheartening it was to wake up this morning and find that our education system has failed yet another poor soul. It is precisely this kind of inability to read and comprehend that is forcing US companies to seek out functional employees in other countries. I am referring to this response to my first post as a prime example.
“Sorry my friend, but your response is 180° from what is going on here. An aggressive compound will wear the rotors true. That's iron oxide (not rust) coating those wheels.
My company supplies Mercedes along with other European, Asian and American manufacturers.
Sounds more like you work for Jurid”
I thought I made it pretty clear that my contention was that the Jurid product is a soft formula, fast wearing and produces more dust than other products with a higher metallic content. The softer compound has its benefits in less noise and less rotor wear but there is more dust. It’s a trade off. I know this full well because I have been selling and installing them on Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW for over 15 years. So if my response is “180 from what is going on here” I would like to hear why.
As for “Sounds like you work for Jurid”, well lets see. I stated that I replaced the Jurid pads at my own $187 expense on a brand new vehicle with 300 and 20 miles on the odometer. Now if that kind of behavior can be interpreted as a plug for Jurid then I want to know what business school you went to. Ed
“Sorry my friend, but your response is 180° from what is going on here. An aggressive compound will wear the rotors true. That's iron oxide (not rust) coating those wheels.
My company supplies Mercedes along with other European, Asian and American manufacturers.
Sounds more like you work for Jurid”
I thought I made it pretty clear that my contention was that the Jurid product is a soft formula, fast wearing and produces more dust than other products with a higher metallic content. The softer compound has its benefits in less noise and less rotor wear but there is more dust. It’s a trade off. I know this full well because I have been selling and installing them on Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW for over 15 years. So if my response is “180 from what is going on here” I would like to hear why.
As for “Sounds like you work for Jurid”, well lets see. I stated that I replaced the Jurid pads at my own $187 expense on a brand new vehicle with 300 and 20 miles on the odometer. Now if that kind of behavior can be interpreted as a plug for Jurid then I want to know what business school you went to. Ed
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Joined: Jan 2004
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new pad update
Well its been over a week since the new version of pads were installed and I'm pretty pleased. I'd say the the reduction in dust levels are on the order of 90%. A full week and and some 400 miles of city driving and the wheels are clean as a whistle. So far no noise as in squeal and overall brake feel is the same as before (excellent). Somebody said that the price of the new kit was $115 but I have verified again with my Ford dealer that the price is $230. The old pads under the part # 2L-1Z-2001-AC are $115 but the new kit is $230. This of course all coming from the local dealer who has been totally in the dark on this whole issue. If somebody knows for sure otherwise please post it. Thanks in advance. Ed
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Re: new pad update
Originally posted by shpedly
Well its been over a week since the new version of pads were installed and I'm pretty pleased. I'd say the the reduction in dust levels are on the order of 90%. A full week and and some 400 miles of city driving and the wheels are clean as a whistle. So far no noise as in squeal and overall brake feel is the same as before (excellent). Somebody said that the price of the new kit was $115 but I have verified again with my Ford dealer that the price is $230. The old pads under the part # 2L-1Z-2001-AC are $115 but the new kit is $230. This of course all coming from the local dealer who has been totally in the dark on this whole issue. If somebody knows for sure otherwise please post it. Thanks in advance. Ed
Well its been over a week since the new version of pads were installed and I'm pretty pleased. I'd say the the reduction in dust levels are on the order of 90%. A full week and and some 400 miles of city driving and the wheels are clean as a whistle. So far no noise as in squeal and overall brake feel is the same as before (excellent). Somebody said that the price of the new kit was $115 but I have verified again with my Ford dealer that the price is $230. The old pads under the part # 2L-1Z-2001-AC are $115 but the new kit is $230. This of course all coming from the local dealer who has been totally in the dark on this whole issue. If somebody knows for sure otherwise please post it. Thanks in advance. Ed
My first choice in aftermarker pads were RAYBESTOS. I have had good luck with them in the past. But they were not available yet.
I didn't see a real reason to replace them with "FORD" pads when they are not made by FORD anyway. We all know that it's not a warranty issue in fact my service advisor advised to get pads from Auto Zone.
So now my dilemna is whether to replace the rear pads as well. My front rims stay so clean that my rear rims look more dirty from the brake dust.
I will call my mechanic tomorrow to inquire on the availability of the rearm pads.
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Salisbury, MD
Re: new pad update
Originally posted by shpedly
Somebody said that the price of the new kit was $115 but I have verified again with my Ford dealer that the price is $230. The old pads under the part # 2L-1Z-2001-AC are $115 but the new kit is $230.
Somebody said that the price of the new kit was $115 but I have verified again with my Ford dealer that the price is $230. The old pads under the part # 2L-1Z-2001-AC are $115 but the new kit is $230.
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Thanks for the posts regarding pricing of the new pad kit guys. The dealer I do most of my business with still says $230 and the 2 other local dealers said they would have to call Ford because the price wasnt in their system yet. Well that was 3 days ago and they havent called back, big surprise! I too would have opted for the aftermarket Raybestos product had I been able to find them. Still dont know who manufactured the new set of pads. The only indentifing marking was the "Ate" name on the piston retaining clip, this pad certainly doesnt look like any Ate pad Ive ever seen. No matter, the problem is solved, and all is right with world again.
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From: Round Rock
I spoke to my service manager yesterday and they will install the dust shield on my 04 Expy as a courtesy tomorrow. He said since it was designed for the Expy there shouldn't be any problems with the air flow or overheating. While I'm there I'll try to find out what cleaner they recommend that won't mess up the finish on the rims.
ACE
ACE
