I don't know why, there just a black smooth metal plate behind the spokes of the wheels. I have pictures I could e-mail and maybe you could put them up here. (I don't know how and don't have a picture website)

They're a lot better than looking at the caliber and rusty parts.

But most of all the wheels stay clean.


Bob

 

WOW...this latest is a big surprise!!

I'm glad I decided not to wait for the Ford pads!

My Expy is scheduled to have the front pads replaced with Power Stop pads at my mechanic. I was going to replace them myself since the dealer just replaced the existing pads with the original pads and also turned the rotors, but no time and I want my mechanic to set them correctly and double check the rotors. I'm only replacing the fronts as the rears are tolerable.

As for kleen wheels, my mechanic advised me against it. He tells me that Ford brakes have not so good engineering in the cooling of the brakes..he suggested that I change out the rotors to power slot rotors...but that would run me about $1000.

Remember with Kleen Wheels, they don't stop the brake dust, they just shield the wheels...where do you think that "excessive" dust goes...it's gotta go somewhere. My guess is that it will stick to the underbody...just a guess I'm no expert.

The Expy goes in tomorrow morning

My mechanic tried to get RAYBESTOS pads as that is what he prefers, but they are not availble yet..he spoke to his brake vendor and he recommended power stop. My mechanic has been doing my brakes for the past 15 years and he has never streered me wrong.

What is interesting is that the dealer has told me that if I was not happy with the aftermarket pads that he would replace them with the new pads from Ford to keep me happy. This may change after the latest TSB. He also kinda slipped and told me in confidence that he has been advising many of his customer to install aftermarlet pads. He recommended pads from autozone..something about part ceramic, graphite, etc etc..again I'm going to go with my brake expert.

I only have one last issue with my expy and that is the driver door rattle/noise..they replace the window run and that didn't do it...they have ordered a new body seal for that door. He showed me where the seal has warped causing a bad seal when the door closes thus creating a "rubbing vibration" noise..That part should be in anyday..

I will post the results from the aftermarket pads in the next couple of days.

As for Ford peforming the wrok as warranty work is going to depend on 2 things..the level of service the individual dealer "elects" to give and the level of business they anticipate from you. I have purchased 13 vehicles in the past 3 years from this dealer and as I purchase all Ford Vans for my business and I have scheduled 3 new vans for 2004...so I will anticipate getting a little different treatment than your average buyer.

However, I'm still electing not to go the dealer direction...as I stated before "it's not worth the aggrevation and time". Just my opinion.

Again, I will keep everyone posted on my experience.

 

We went through the "mechanic told me they're no good" discussion a while back. There was an old product out that was something like Kleen Wheels and it did cause harm. I would like to know if anyone personally had a problem with the Kleen Wheel brand. I have never met someone yet that didn't say " I heard, or a friend of mine, or someone at work etc."

They are no different then having a regular rim on the car. As far as the dust underneath--who cares? There is a lot of other road dirt, tar, road kill debris, etc. under there anyway. At least my wheels and the side of the car remain clean. I will probably switch to the new brake pad Ford put out when these are gone but will not remove the Kleen Wheels. They work too well and prolong the good looks of a wash job so I don't need to do it every other day. (I commute 110 miles a day).

Sometimes it only takes a simple fix. Brake dust shouldn't become the "Manhattan Project" neither through effort or expense.

Bob

 

Hey Bob,

How long have you had Kleen wheels on your truck? How much did they run you? and where di you purchase them?

Thanks

 

2 months or 4+K miles. However, the dealer has been installing them on peoples cars and trucks for almost 2 years now. Remember the 03s came out in the spring of 02. That's when people first started screaming about the dirt/dust.

It was the fact that the service manager told me about them and the good history they had that sold me. He has always gone out of his way for Paulette and I since we've been using him for 10 years or more and bought a couple of vehicles there as well as this one. (The Lincoln and Ford Dealer are across town from each other and owned by the same family) We currently own 1 of each.

I bought my Kleen Wheels from a 4 wheel drive center so they were less than the dealer wanted for them. $35 a pair. They put them on for about $20.

I do take mine to a car wash and always get the more deluxe wash that cleans the underbody. I know a lot of folks just cringed, but yes, 3 days after I picked up the 2004 it was in the car wash. My 2000 was never washed by hand except when I had a birthday present of a detail gift and it always looked good.

Have a good day--Bob

 

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I know this is the brake dust thread, but I'm awaiting for them to replace my window run for the same problem, and if it didn't work for you, then that's at least two more visits I have to make for them to then replace the seal.

 

What a croc of *****

 

I have a 2003 Navigator with the excessive dust problem. We have about 35k miles on her and the pads are now worn in the front. That would normally be a wear issue but I have been complaining about the dust for some time now and Ford (Lincoln) has been unresponsive. My dealer has now ordered the parts for both front and rear and the Service Manager has quoted me $300 to $400 for the work. One reason it is so high is that he says the rotors will need to be replaced also. This is to make them "match" the new pads. I had a nice talk with the General Manager shortly afterward expressing my "deep concern" <:
I was assured that this situation will be looked into. I will keep you posted. The dealership has been good to me so far with no cost to me for serving this car, but this is ridiculous!

 

Hey everybody, here's what my dealership sent me: "I finally have a copy of the TSB concerning the brake dust issue on the Expeditions. It is not what I was expecting . It denies coverage under warranty. I reccomend you contact Ford @ 1800-392-3673. We here at Bowditch are calling our Ford representatives as well. I have attached a copy of the TSB for you to reveiw. I will continue to work on this concern on yours and other customers behalf."

I appreciate his honesty and I hope and pray he follows through with Ford or at least I hope Bowditch Ford of Newport News, Va takes care of their customers.

I've also bought a pair of Kleen Wheels that I'm going to install.

Good luck to all and thanks for keeping this issue alive until it's resolved.

 

I am going to push this issue, as everyone else should here as a violation of our warranty contract.

Under Title 15, Chapter 50, Sec. 2310 of the United States Code:

(d) Civil action by consumer for damages, etc.; jurisdiction; recovery of costs and expenses; cognizable claims
(1) Subject to subsections (a)(3) and (e) of this section, a consumer who is damaged by the failure of a supplier, warrantor, or service contractor to comply with any obligation under this chapter, or under a written warranty, implied warranty, or service contract, may bring suit for damages and other legal and equitable relief -

-------
From page 5 & 6 of the warranty:

"During this coverage period, authorized Ford Motor Company dealers will repair, replace, or adjust all parts on your
vehicle that are defective in factory-supplied materials or workmanship."

-------
From page 8 of the warranty:

"Your New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover: (1) parts and labor needed to maintain the vehicle; and (2) the replacement of parts due to normal wear and tear."

-------
Definition of Normal from the American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:

Normal:
1. Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical
2. Something normal; the standard
3. The usual or expected state, form, amount, or degree.

-------------------------------

With these facts you can conclude that the brake dust is not normal as it's not the standard or expected ammount. Ford's refusal to change the pads under the warranty is a violation of the US code and eligible for suit.

 

Actually when I first started reading the last post I thought the outcome was going to be Ford was in the right.

All that sounds very nice but who says dusty pads are defective. Even the new bads will dust a little, they all do.

So what is the degree of acceptable dust and not acceptable. One mans acceptable will be anothers unacceptable. Should we invent the dusta-rometer? Please.

I think Ford is safe "legally" in what they said. Keep in mind they are not the only manufacturer with the problem. Just look around while driving. Oh, by the way, the brakes do work very well compared to my last 3 vehicles.

Since the brakes work they aren't defective. The pads looked like they were physically produced OK--no workmanship problem I can see.

Besides as I said and did. For $55 I took care of the problem completely. No new pads or rotors. And as I said since all pads will dust I will keep the Kleen Wheels on the truck regardless of the type of pad.

Remember, a little brake dust shouldn't become a "Manhattan Project". Maybe some of you don't know what that was. For a few bucks are your grief will be over.

I am currently on my 4th Expy (97, 99, 2000, 2004) and never got more than 36K miles on a set of brakes. So I will be happy if these last that long.

I guess that would be normal wear and tear.

So there really isn't an issue here. You can spend $55 for Kleen Wheels, or $300-400 for new ones that will still dust a little if it bugs you that much, or just keep what you have and wait until they need replacing.

I'm not associated with Ford or Kleen Wheels in any way in case anyone is wondering.

It just goes to show that everything you read on these boards or on the net isn't necessarily true. (ie.. New free pads are coming out in 3rd qtr 03.) I asked the dealer months ago and he said if they do come out with something it probably won't be free. He was correct.

Depending how much your dealer made off you on the sale of your truck he may decide to help you out (maybe?).

Anyway, enough said. Lets move on.

Bob

 

It was obviously not accecptable to Ford because they made a change.

 

I just spoke with a tech on another site, he said there are "ways" the dealer could help, but wouldn't tell me how.

 

Ford makes a lot of changes as demonstrated by the differences between my 1997 and the 2004 Expy.

Even within the 2003 model year they had 3 revisions. The original had single zone heat and air, the last had dual zone. The original had two reverse sensors todays has 4. The original 97 had no heated seats, todays seats have heat and air---and so on.

It still doesn't mean it's defective. Maybe Ford got tired of everyone crying about it and took another look at it. I would hate to lay down 58K on a Nav and have it look like crap every two days. That's why I put the sheilds on mine. It took me 4 days to get the sheilds on and in that time I washed the wheels twice.

Look at other brands as well. Remember it isn't Ford who makes the pads it's their supplier. The same supplier probably makes pads for other brands as well. Maybe those brands will also switch to the new material design. I would bet they do.

The rest I said in previous posts. I won't beat this to death any more.

Moving on........