Gas vs PSD
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Has reality been checked at the door? V10's only have a speed advantage 0-75 mph? A 6.8l is faster than a psd stock and empty. Stock and heavy a psd will pull the 1st several yds faster. On flat ground the 6.8l just walks away. Anyone that thinks a 6.0l turbo doesn't havent lag hasn't driven one. Its just the way it is. Boost has to be built. More exhuast has to be made to make "more boost". Some lag can be programmed out but there will always be a delay its just the way it works. A 6.4 shouldn't have more lag than a 6.0l. The 6.4l uses the 2 turbo system. The 6.0 uses a single large turbo so it can have a better usage range. But that cost a lag which the 6.4l small turbo take advantage of then the larger turbo takes over and carries the boost from mid-full range.
Nissan Titans? Really? ROFLMAO. The Titan's -12k GCWR is less than most of us pull on our trailers. A Titan having a trailer weight of 5-6k is a joke when comparing to the SDs.
Its really sad that a grown man can't see what these machines are and how the different drive trains work and their respective advantages. Most of this is so childish.
Nissan Titans? Really? ROFLMAO. The Titan's -12k GCWR is less than most of us pull on our trailers. A Titan having a trailer weight of 5-6k is a joke when comparing to the SDs.
Its really sad that a grown man can't see what these machines are and how the different drive trains work and their respective advantages. Most of this is so childish.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Reality pretty much has been checked as you say. V10 proponents like to promote the speed issue, and in in that case I'll say it's a winner. But since in reality every day driving is not a race, and the speed limit generally tops out at 70 mph or so, and a large percentage of PSD owners have one to TOW, speed much beyond that is pretty much a non-isue.
I know based on past and current experience with the V10, and current experience with the 2 PSDs usually in question, that it is no contest when towing heavy loads in mixed terrain long distance highway driving.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Maybe a 6 leaker with a SCT tuner would clean my clock, but I doubt it, maybe slowly pass me but not clean my clock. The thing is that after he passed me and he got to the top of the hill, he'd have to pull over and puuck his guts out, then I'd pass him. If you go to any Ford dealer's shop and look in, most of what you see is 6 leakers. Now that most all of the 6 leakers are past warranty, the poor slob that buys one is really hanging out. I feel sorry for them since most think they are getting a really good deal on a nice Ford SD diesel but it will eat their lunch.
A few v10's and 5.4's are having issues with the top end wearing out to the extent that the entire engine is replaced because of low compression and oil pressure.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 6
From: Garden Valley, Idaho
The no-spool up is the perfect comparison for a gasser vs a diesel since it shows pure low end hp/tq, so if you aren't scared of getting beat, then just start the pull from idle and see what happens. I do know that the new 6.7 is way ahead of my 6.8 in both hp and torque and not much of a challange, also my diesel mechanic friends say that other than the urea tank issues, it is a fantastic engine. Coupled with the 6 speed TorqueShift tranny it is a very fine setup. I just wonder if the $55,000 pricetag is worth it in the long run for most people.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,085
Likes: 6
From: Lakewood, Ca.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Could you explain this a little?
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 383
Likes: 3
thats what happened to my step-dad's 150....it was the 5.4L though...
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 6
From: Garden Valley, Idaho
All of the modern turbo's diesels develop their hp when the turbo spools up. The gasser doesn't have a turbo, so it' hp develops the moment you give it gas. Same thing in an outright drag race. If there is a no-spool rule on the drag race, then the gasser gets enough of a head start that by the time the diesel does spool up, the race is over with the gasser the winner. This also happens during a shift in the tranny as it takes a while for the turbo to develop it's boost. This more previlent on standard transmissions like the Dodges mostly have.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,085
Likes: 6
From: Lakewood, Ca.
I understand that. What I don't understand is how doing that would show the "pure low end hp/torque" of the motors.
Are there "no spool up" rules in drag racing competition?
Are there "no spool up" rules in drag racing competition?
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 383
Likes: 3
All of the modern turbo's diesels develop their hp when the turbo spools up. The gasser doesn't have a turbo, so it' hp develops the moment you give it gas. Same thing in an outright drag race. If there is a no-spool rule on the drag race, then the gasser gets enough of a head start that by the time the diesel does spool up, the race is over with the gasser the winner. This also happens during a shift in the tranny as it takes a while for the turbo to develop it's boost. This more previlent on standard transmissions like the Dodges mostly have.
hmmmmm....no?!?!?
You give diesels fuel....you give gas engines air to raise and lower the throttle.....
I have never heard a person that has so many handicaps and rules to a race...what's next diesels cant run with diesel fuel? because Diesel fuel contains more BTU's than gas so it would make you "even" so you can win????
Just Give up......quit trying to make yourself feel better when you are at the gas station every three days.....
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
If you were to graph torque versus TIME instead of RPM, it would be obvious.
Why it matters overall, I don't know
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
The turbos went long way in designs in last decade. From the one that took 2 hands to carry and several seconds to spool up, to new turbos with adjustable directing fins, where the wheel size of a quarter spools up to 200,000 rpm in fraction of second.
There are gasoline engines with turbos on them, but seems that most of manufacturers abounded the idea in last decade. I can see only 4 cylinders gas engines equipped with superchargers. Evidently turbo is not working for gas engines too well.
There are gasoline engines with turbos on them, but seems that most of manufacturers abounded the idea in last decade. I can see only 4 cylinders gas engines equipped with superchargers. Evidently turbo is not working for gas engines too well.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 383
Likes: 3
Here is some hard math......
I guess a 6.0L or 6.4L diesel is a 6k dollar option....
for the sake of discussion we will use the 6.0 Leaker motor.
6,000.00 for option
4,500.00 for the "fix head studs egr, and coolant filter if it needs it...if not pure profit or that can go to the extend price of maintence"
10,500.00
truck gets average of 6mpg's better than a v10.....
SOOOOOO.....
totalling 27k a year driving...
29 gallon tank diesel is at 4.00 a gallon and 87 octane is at 3.80 a gallon (least it is here)
v10
12mpg average, 348 miles per fill up. that is 8,550 in fuel per year.
6.0L diesel
18 mpg average, 522 miles per fill up. that's 6,000 per year for fuel....
keep the truck for 5 years....
you spend 15k more in fuel than the diesel truck....
to me it looks like there is 2250 bucks to spend at the gentlemans club....over the course of 5 years...
plus the price of re-sale, the extended capability of diesels, etc. they win hands down....
I guess a 6.0L or 6.4L diesel is a 6k dollar option....
for the sake of discussion we will use the 6.0 Leaker motor.
6,000.00 for option
4,500.00 for the "fix head studs egr, and coolant filter if it needs it...if not pure profit or that can go to the extend price of maintence"
10,500.00
truck gets average of 6mpg's better than a v10.....
SOOOOOO.....
totalling 27k a year driving...
29 gallon tank diesel is at 4.00 a gallon and 87 octane is at 3.80 a gallon (least it is here)
v10
12mpg average, 348 miles per fill up. that is 8,550 in fuel per year.
6.0L diesel
18 mpg average, 522 miles per fill up. that's 6,000 per year for fuel....
keep the truck for 5 years....
you spend 15k more in fuel than the diesel truck....
to me it looks like there is 2250 bucks to spend at the gentlemans club....over the course of 5 years...
plus the price of re-sale, the extended capability of diesels, etc. they win hands down....
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,256
Likes: 6
From: Garden Valley, Idaho
You diesel dudes always forget to add up your maintenance costs vs a gasser maintenance, like $19.95 for an oil change vs $100 or more for a 6.0 and adding your fuel filters, that's another $80 each time. and the difference in fuel vs 87/89 octane, plus all of the extra $$ for you Power Service or Stanadyne to make up for the low sulphur fuel lack of lube. And just how much is reliability worth to ya??
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 383
Likes: 3
You diesel dudes always forget to add up your maintenance costs vs a gasser maintenance, like $19.95 for an oil change vs $100 or more for a 6.0 and adding your fuel filters, that's another $80 each time. and the difference in fuel vs 87/89 octane, plus all of the extra $$ for you Power Service or Stanadyne to make up for the low sulphur fuel lack of lube. And just how much is reliability worth to ya??
that was included in the 4500 dollar difference plus the 6k option fee...btw that was at the top of my post....
45 bucks for filters at international....2 times a year...so thats 450 bucks for 5 years.
oil changes 12.00 a gallon rotella t plus filter...difference is 48 bucks....so thats 480 dollars over a 5 year period....still added in my 4500 dollar difference....
run bio diesel for lubricity...which is 4.00 a gallon....
STILL comes out ahead....so what are you going to pull out of your hat next?!?!?!?!?!
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 3
You diesel dudes always forget to add up your maintenance costs vs a gasser maintenance, like $19.95 for an oil change vs $100 or more for a 6.0 and adding your fuel filters, that's another $80 each time. and the difference in fuel vs 87/89 octane, plus all of the extra $$ for you Power Service or Stanadyne to make up for the low sulphur fuel lack of lube. And just how much is reliability worth to ya??