Gas vs PSD
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
Ok, if you want to put up video, then put both up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkCWMv3TaMk
7.3L truck on same hill.
If you listen to what is be said. the 7.3 topped first hill at 25. It seemed as though the driver was more cautious than some of the other drivers. Could be he wasn;t comfortable with the trailer on the winding roads. IMO, thats the only reason the 7.3L didn't beat the V10 on top speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkCWMv3TaMk
7.3L truck on same hill.
If you listen to what is be said. the 7.3 topped first hill at 25. It seemed as though the driver was more cautious than some of the other drivers. Could be he wasn;t comfortable with the trailer on the winding roads. IMO, thats the only reason the 7.3L didn't beat the V10 on top speed.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
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From: Canton, IL
Now, running the V10 with a tune, 20 at the top of the first hill. Three runs, Same Transmission. 'problem'. Same trans in the 7.3L truck, more speed at the top of the first hill.
YouTube - M2U00073.MPG
I'm not seeing the V10 beating the 7.3L
YouTube - M2U00073.MPG
I'm not seeing the V10 beating the 7.3L
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
Ok, if you want to put up video, then put both up.
YouTube - M2U00071.MPG!
7.3L truck on same hill.
If you listen to what is be said. the 7.3 topped first hill at 25. It seemed as though the driver was more cautious than some of the other drivers. Could be he wasn;t comfortable with the trailer on the winding roads. IMO, thats the only reason the 7.3L didn't beat the V10 to the top.
YouTube - M2U00071.MPG!
7.3L truck on same hill.
If you listen to what is be said. the 7.3 topped first hill at 25. It seemed as though the driver was more cautious than some of the other drivers. Could be he wasn;t comfortable with the trailer on the winding roads. IMO, thats the only reason the 7.3L didn't beat the V10 to the top.
The truck's owner wanted to run it again with his chip turned up, but the exhaust leak was getting pretty obnoxious so we took it back.
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Someone PLEASE give him his medicine, 62HP does not beat 203TQ. Plus you have a 5 speed as apposed to a 6 speed.
Line them up with the same 3.73 or 4.30, same load and I am willing to bet a large amount of money the the 6.7 wins hands down.
Someone PLEASE give him his medicine, 62HP does not beat 203TQ. Plus you have a 5 speed as apposed to a 6 speed.
Line them up with the same 3.73 or 4.30, same load and I am willing to bet a large amount of money the the 6.7 wins hands down.
And why do all the diesel fans always want to gear the gas engine so much steeper than the diesel? If they have the same axle, the V10 will be geared for about a 45% greater top speed, which is not only unnecessary, but also unreachable with the speed limiter. To match the speed capabilities of a diesel with a 3.73, the V10 should have something like a 5.38. When the diesel has a 5.38, like they often do in a 650/750, the V10 should have at least a 7.0x.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Canton, IL
The V10 will have the same 6 speed transmission as the 6.7.
And why do all the diesel fans always want to gear the gas engine so much steeper than the diesel? If they have the same axle, the V10 will be geared for about a 45% greater top speed, which is not only unnecessary, but also unreachable with the speed limiter. To match the speed capabilities of a diesel with a 3.73, the V10 should have something like a 5.38. When the diesel has a 5.38, like they often do in a 650/750, the V10 should have at least a 7.0x.
And why do all the diesel fans always want to gear the gas engine so much steeper than the diesel? If they have the same axle, the V10 will be geared for about a 45% greater top speed, which is not only unnecessary, but also unreachable with the speed limiter. To match the speed capabilities of a diesel with a 3.73, the V10 should have something like a 5.38. When the diesel has a 5.38, like they often do in a 650/750, the V10 should have at least a 7.0x.
ok, you need to do some more reading in these forums.
Gearing a V10 that way would result in accelerated wear from running at the red line just to stay at highway speed.
F650 and 750's have larger wheels/tires that have to have a lower rear end to maintain tq to the ground. if you put highway gears in a F650, (3.73:1) the truck would be gutless and never make it to highway speed with full load.
remember this, Apples to apples... apples and oranges only make fruit salad....
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
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ok, you need to do some more reading in these forums.
Gearing a V10 that way would result in excelerated wear from running at the redline just to stay at highway speed.
F650 and 750's have larger wheels/tires that have to have a lower rear end to maintain tq to the ground. if you put highway gears in a F650, (3.73:1) the truck would be gutless and never make it to highway speed with full load.
remember this, Apples to apples... apples and oranges only make fruit salad....
Gearing a V10 that way would result in excelerated wear from running at the redline just to stay at highway speed.
F650 and 750's have larger wheels/tires that have to have a lower rear end to maintain tq to the ground. if you put highway gears in a F650, (3.73:1) the truck would be gutless and never make it to highway speed with full load.
remember this, Apples to apples... apples and oranges only make fruit salad....
The 650/750 will have the same larger wheels and tires whether is has a diesel or a gas engine. The same differences in gears would still apply.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 31
From: Idaho
vt365 or 6.0 ford
As I understand it it emissions didn't really have anything to do with it but rather Fords souring relationship with Navistar. Ford contracted Navistar to provide them with an engine, and Navistar subbed it out to a European design firm that had plenty of diesel experience. The name of that firm escapes me at the moment. Said firm provided Navistar with an engine they already had and were already producing, which Navistar passed on to Ford. The problems came when the 6.0 was tapped for duty (by Ford) that it wasn't really designed for.
Apparently some changes were made in order to get the engine to meet US emissions regs and this had an adverse affect on the longevity of the engine. There were some failures in fleet type service (think EM services) that resulted in lawsuits that cost Ford big money. Ford blamed Navistar, Navistar blamed contracted European company, lawsuits and counter-suits abounded and much fun was had by all.
The 6.4 was supposed to rectify the issues of the 6.0 but Ford had decided they'd had enough of the out-sourcing game and figured it was time to build their own toys and the result was the 6.7
Or so I've heard....
Apparently some changes were made in order to get the engine to meet US emissions regs and this had an adverse affect on the longevity of the engine. There were some failures in fleet type service (think EM services) that resulted in lawsuits that cost Ford big money. Ford blamed Navistar, Navistar blamed contracted European company, lawsuits and counter-suits abounded and much fun was had by all.
The 6.4 was supposed to rectify the issues of the 6.0 but Ford had decided they'd had enough of the out-sourcing game and figured it was time to build their own toys and the result was the 6.7
Or so I've heard....
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,155
Likes: 31
From: Idaho
As I understand it it emissions didn't really have anything to do with it but rather Fords souring relationship with Navistar. Ford contracted Navistar to provide them with an engine, and Navistar subbed it out to a European design firm that had plenty of diesel experience. The name of that firm escapes me at the moment. Said firm provided Navistar with an engine they already had and were already producing, which Navistar passed on to Ford. The problems came when the 6.0 was tapped for duty (by Ford) that it wasn't really designed for.
Apparently some changes were made in order to get the engine to meet US emissions regs and this had an adverse affect on the longevity of the engine. There were some failures in fleet type service (think EM services) that resulted in lawsuits that cost Ford big money. Ford blamed Navistar, Navistar blamed contracted European company, lawsuits and counter-suits abounded and much fun was had by all.
The 6.4 was supposed to rectify the issues of the 6.0 but Ford had decided they'd had enough of the out-sourcing game and figured it was time to build their own toys and the result was the 6.7
Or so I've heard....
Apparently some changes were made in order to get the engine to meet US emissions regs and this had an adverse affect on the longevity of the engine. There were some failures in fleet type service (think EM services) that resulted in lawsuits that cost Ford big money. Ford blamed Navistar, Navistar blamed contracted European company, lawsuits and counter-suits abounded and much fun was had by all.
The 6.4 was supposed to rectify the issues of the 6.0 but Ford had decided they'd had enough of the out-sourcing game and figured it was time to build their own toys and the result was the 6.7
Or so I've heard....
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Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Canton, IL
I was driving the 7.3l truck in the video. Wasn't my truck and it had a few miles on it. With the high EGT numbers from the gauge I was concerned about blowing it up!
The truck's owner wanted to run it again with his chip turned up, but the exhaust leak was getting pretty obnoxious so we took it back.
The truck's owner wanted to run it again with his chip turned up, but the exhaust leak was getting pretty obnoxious so we took it back.
Originally Posted by Monster-4
BTW I already talked with Mike at 5 Star. He thought it was the TC locking up at 3,000RPM not an upshift to 2nd. That makes more sense and is something I could smacked myself in the forehead for not thinking of. If I understood him correctly he says it's that way in stock form and tune since default values are used when to lock up the TC in 1st.
Seems to me that the torque peak on a V10 is in the 3K range, so the TC locked up near the tq peak. (in which HP at that engine speed was not enough to accelerate the truck and load ).
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
Or maybe you should do some math. A Super Duty with a 5.38 rear would have to turn around 2900 rpm at 70 mph. Not great, but that's less than some cars turn at the same speed from the factory, and far, far from redline.
The 650/750 will have the same larger wheels and tires whether is has a diesel or a gas engine. The same differences in gears would still apply.
The 650/750 will have the same larger wheels and tires whether is has a diesel or a gas engine. The same differences in gears would still apply.
A 7.3L's gearing in one of those trucks would need to be 4.88:1 to 5.29:1 to give best fuel economy. Any lower gear, and the truck would be mechanically speed limited by how many RPM's it can turn.
Cars have smaller engines, weigh less, don't have to tow, have larger rpm ranges, and if it is a 4cyl, doesn't make any power till at least 3500rpm. so them running at 4k down the highway at 80mph is no big deal.
I seem to remember something about apples, or was it fruit salad.....
Notice my sig, ( 98 contour), I know about how these 4cyl's run....
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
I just watched the hill climb vids agian.
The V10 hit 20 MPH in 12 seconds.
The 7.3 did not hit 20 until 20 seconds in, 8 seconds longer than the V10.
At 12 seconds, the 7.3 was at 15.
If they where side by side, the V10 would have walked away from the 7.3.
The V10 hit 20 MPH in 12 seconds.
The 7.3 did not hit 20 until 20 seconds in, 8 seconds longer than the V10.
At 12 seconds, the 7.3 was at 15.
If they where side by side, the V10 would have walked away from the 7.3.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
I will have the engine problems solved in the 01 long before then.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
The V10 did not 'walk away' from the PSD. The PSD, in elapsed time, beat the V10. Flat ground, yeh, the V10 would walk away via the higher hp. On hills, torque rules.
All of these test were very inaccurate. (no defined starting spot, no stopwatch, etc.) The only thing that can be deduced from these videos is that the PSD top'd the hill at 25 and the V10 top'd it at 20. PSD wins......
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Your looking only at the initial acceleration. The V10 took 54 seconds ( via video timer :21 to 1:15) to top the first hill. Even with a tune on the V10 it took 52 seconds. The 7.3L took 50 seconds to top it ( :07 to :57).
The V10 did not 'walk away' from the PSD. The PSD, in elapsed time, beat the V10. Flat ground, yeh, the V10 would walk away via the higher hp. On hills, torque rules.
All of these test were very inaccurate. (no defined starting spot, no stopwatch, etc.) The only thing that can be deduced from these videos is that the PSD top'd the hill at 25 and the V10 top'd it at 20. PSD wins......
The V10 did not 'walk away' from the PSD. The PSD, in elapsed time, beat the V10. Flat ground, yeh, the V10 would walk away via the higher hp. On hills, torque rules.
All of these test were very inaccurate. (no defined starting spot, no stopwatch, etc.) The only thing that can be deduced from these videos is that the PSD top'd the hill at 25 and the V10 top'd it at 20. PSD wins......
On M2U00074, with Mike's 93 octane tow tune it completed the pull in 1:45. 28 seconds faster than the PSD.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
Er....um....look at the time from start to end. On the first V10 video, M2U00071, Mike's truck completed the pull in 1:50. The PSD did it in 2:13. That's 23 second longer for the PSD!
On M2U00074, with Mike's 93 octane tow tune it completed the pull in 1:45. 28 seconds faster than the PSD.
On M2U00074, with Mike's 93 octane tow tune it completed the pull in 1:45. 28 seconds faster than the PSD.
Though doesn't the v10 programmed have more hp than the 6.0?