Notices
1999 - 2016 Super Duty 1999 to 2016 Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty with diesel V8 and gas V8 and V10 engines
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Real Truck

Gas vs PSD

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 11:14 AM
  #9421  
David N.'s Avatar
David N.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by PorchFarms
I love the people who think torque is just a made up number to sell vehicles. How many times have you horsepowered your lugs on your truck?
You do--every time you tighten (or loosen) them. Torque is a rotational force. The threads on the lug convert it to a linear force. You apply some linear force for a distance (the length of the lug) over a time (ever how long it takes you to put it on). This, force x distance / time, is the very definition of power.

For a given lug, the force and the distance will be the same, so how long it takes you determines the power you apply. With a lot of power, you do it fast, with little power, you do it slow.
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 11:21 AM
  #9422  
tgreening's Avatar
tgreening
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Originally Posted by Krazymaan
Besides, electric would win hands down in any gas vs diesel vs electric.

Yeah, but the biggest and strongest electric motors generally have their electricity produced by.....a Diesel!!!
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 11:23 AM
  #9423  
tgreening's Avatar
tgreening
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Originally Posted by David N.
With a lot of power, you do it fast, with little power, you do it slow.

With no torque you don't do it at all.
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 01:16 PM
  #9424  
Kajtek1's Avatar
Kajtek1
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Originally Posted by tgreening
Yeah, but the biggest and strongest electric motors generally have their electricity produced by.....a Diesel!!!
That is right for long-mileage haulers. IMHO the bus diesel hybrids, where small diesel runs the generator at constant speed is the only hybrid to date that makes engineering and economical sense.
Than comparing electric, the 100% electric Tesla car is good competitor to Ferrari acceleration -wise.
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 09:12 PM
  #9425  
PorchFarms's Avatar
PorchFarms
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: West TN
One of the coolest hybrid ideas has to be from international. They have a hybrid truck that uses a small diesel to run the gen. and a electric motor hooked in front of a regular transmission. They estimate the truck to get 20 mpg and still haul 27 tons. Plus it looks like a regular semi, no star wars crap. They have a fleet of them being tested out in CA to try and see how the trucks hold up to everyday abuse. I would love to take a truck and put a 3 cylinder diesel running a gen. and a elec. motor to the tranny and see how it does.
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 10:39 PM
  #9426  
David N.'s Avatar
David N.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by PorchFarms
One of the coolest hybrid ideas has to be from international. They have a hybrid truck that uses a small diesel to run the gen. and a electric motor hooked in front of a regular transmission. They estimate the truck to get 20 mpg and still haul 27 tons. Plus it looks like a regular semi, no star wars crap. They have a fleet of them being tested out in CA to try and see how the trucks hold up to everyday abuse. I would love to take a truck and put a 3 cylinder diesel running a gen. and a elec. motor to the tranny and see how it does.
Do you have a link or any more info about these (especially who is testing them)? International has had hybrid trucks in the field for a few years now, but they are a more traditional hybrid. The engines are standard Navistar engines, but the transmissions are quite different--allowing for the engine and braking to charge the hybrid batteries, and for the batteries to assist the engine on acceleration. The batteries can also provide power through the PTO with the engine off, which can save a lot of fuel in certain applications. Between the batteries, cooling system, and other electronics, the hybrid trucks are quite a bit heavier, and a lot more space on the chassis is occupied from the factory.
 
Reply
Old Nov 25, 2010 | 11:32 PM
  #9427  
Kajtek1's Avatar
Kajtek1
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Originally Posted by PorchFarms
One of the coolest hybrid ideas has to be from international. They have a hybrid truck that uses a small diesel to run the gen. and a electric motor hooked in front of a regular transmission. They estimate the truck to get 20 mpg and still haul 27 tons. Plus it looks like a regular semi, no star wars crap. They have a fleet of them being tested out in CA to try and see how the trucks hold up to everyday abuse. I would love to take a truck and put a 3 cylinder diesel running a gen. and a elec. motor to the tranny and see how it does.
I don't know how small diesel can give enough electric power to push 27 ton on freeway. The city bus hybrid is using batteries to supply power for start ups that got charged at the bus stops. Semis don't have bus stop.
The icing on the cake in buses are electric motors build into each wheel. This way you have AWD with no transfer case and no differentials. That frees lot of space for passengers and makes for low maintenance.
 
Reply
Old Nov 26, 2010 | 10:07 AM
  #9428  
driximus's Avatar
driximus
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,317
Likes: 0
From: Auburn, Wa
Club FTE Silver Member

Originally Posted by Kajtek1
I don't know how small diesel can give enough electric power to push 27 ton on freeway. The city bus hybrid is using batteries to supply power for start ups that got charged at the bus stops. Semis don't have bus stop.
The icing on the cake in buses are electric motors build into each wheel. This way you have AWD with no transfer case and no differentials. That frees lot of space for passengers and makes for low maintenance.

All the diesel does is turn the rotor in generator. The Diesel engine has hardly any work to do other then turn it. Much like how large ships the diesel engine/nuclear reactor power a steam engine.
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ways Ford is LOSING to the Competition

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now

 Brett Foote
story-2

This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership

 Brett Foote
story-5

10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-6

Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained

 Brett Foote
story-7

10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Nov 26, 2010 | 11:02 AM
  #9429  
David N.'s Avatar
David N.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by driximus
All the diesel does is turn the rotor in generator. The Diesel engine has hardly any work to do other then turn it. Much like how large ships the diesel engine/nuclear reactor power a steam engine.
You would still need a minimum of ~175 HP to the ground (probably more like 250-300 unless the ground is completely flat), though. While the generator/motor combo would probably be more efficient than a typical ICE drive train, its going to take a moderate sized engine or a substantial battery bank to achieve that.
 
Reply
Old Nov 26, 2010 | 06:48 PM
  #9430  
phillips91's Avatar
phillips91
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
Originally Posted by bill11012
I'm sorry to hear that. How badly hurt are/were you?
Bad enough to require surgery, but not bad enough to require it immediately. I get to sit around and pop loratabs for a couple of weeks and then go in for surgery.

Originally Posted by exiled
The transmission doesn't turn its self. The engine turns the whole drive train while all the forces in the world is trying to stop it.
Originally Posted by exiled
Don't you get it? Its horse power that turns the world. Its amazing how the thread is about 1 engine vs another and every engine in between and gears and transmissions have came to play.
The reason transmissions and gearing come into play is because when ran at the same speed at peak tq or hp they are not going to be in the same gear. Having more engine tq is important when both are being ran in the same gear, but not in different gears. Gearing multiplies tq just like adding pulleys to a lifting system helps you lift more weight. If you are twice as strong as Bill and both of you try to lift a weight using one pulley you are going to lift twice as much weight as Bill. If you use the same pulley system but Bill adds a second pulley(2:1 ratio to yours) to his to let him lift the weight easier, he is going to be able to lift the same amount of weight as you and be able to lift it just as fast even though he only generates half the power of you.

Originally Posted by PorchFarms
Just curious, How many of you v 10 guys have owned a psd. I don't mean driven one before. I mean actually owned one.
I currently own an OBS 7.3 and a 2v 5.4 and used a 2v and 3v v10 and a 3v 5.4 as a company truck for over 4 years. I also have a cousin and uncle that own or have owned a 2v v10 auto 3.73, 3v 5.4 auto, OBS 7.3 auto, SD 7.3 manual and a 6.0 auto and we have towed the same trailers on the same roads on the same day. So I have a pretty good idea how they compare to each other.
 
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2010 | 12:48 AM
  #9431  
krewat's Avatar
krewat
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Club FTE Gold Member
Originally Posted by PorchFarms
I love the people who think torque is just a made up number to sell vehicles. How many times have you horsepowered your lugs on your truck?
And how many times have you torqued your lug nuts up a hill?

I would be worried if you did

what's really funny was those who said HP is a made up number. Oh well, tomate-oh, tomah-to.
 
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2010 | 05:46 AM
  #9432  
exiled's Avatar
exiled
Cargo Master
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by phillips91
The reason transmissions and gearing come into play is because when ran at the same speed at peak tq or hp they are not going to be in the same gear. Having more engine tq is important when both are being ran in the same gear, but not in different gears. Gearing multiplies tq just like adding pulleys to a lifting system helps you lift more weight. If you are twice as strong as Bill and both of you try to lift a weight using one pulley you are going to lift twice as much weight as Bill. If you use the same pulley system but Bill adds a second pulley(2:1 ratio to yours) to his to let him lift the weight easier, he is going to be able to lift the same amount of weight as you and be able to lift it just as fast even though he only generates half the power of you.
I understand the inventions to reduce/multiply work. You can use a 2' bar with same amount of force and will apply 2ce the tq. Here is the problem for me using the pulleys to explain the gearing. With the pulley(s) you always have the same natural forces applied. I mean your never going uphill or have wind blowing straight down on your object creating extra force that bill or I would have to counter. But for argument sake it would. With 2 pulleys Bill could lift same amount of weight with less amount of force applied. Now add the extra force of head wind straight down on the object bill might have to stop and go get a 3rd pulley just to lift the object. The worst case here is Bill has to strain to get the object lifted with his 2 pulleys cause the job has to be done in a timely manner, and hurts his self/ gets a hernia. Aight the argument thus far assumes that Bill can go up the Hill at WOT and has his tq multiplied and speed up, but I have to stay in 5th gear stay at my present speed or shift down and slow down. This is false. No way a true statement. Never mind that the hp lover over look that in their argument here they are want to multiply their tq with lower gear not hp. Which don't get me wrong will get multiplied later on. Just because 2nd gear multiplies (a) amount of times doesn't mean that 3rd gear can't take more raw tq and multiply it at a less amout of times and still come out with more tq. I don't the mutlply number right off the top of my head but I think this will work. If Bills 2nd gear doubles his tq and has -100 lbs tq I'll say he has -100 lb 2nd doubles it and now appling 100 lbs to the rear. Let's say my 3rd only multiplies 1.5x. I now have 150 lbs of tq applied to the rear. Smaller gear, smaller multiplier, end result more tq. Yall on the right path just giving the little guy just to much hype.
 
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2010 | 07:30 AM
  #9433  
RUFFSTUFF's Avatar
RUFFSTUFF
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: Kingsland, GA
Originally Posted by Krewat
And how many times have you torqued your lug nuts up a hill?

I would be worried if you did

what's really funny was those who said HP is a made up number. Oh well, tomate-oh, tomah-to.

It's not made up... it's just a calculation to support the measurement of power. And since there are several different versions of how to calculate horsepower, its meaning and or value has been significantly reduced over the years. Mostly, the only thing horsepower is good for these days is bragging about something that is not understood.
 
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2010 | 08:40 AM
  #9434  
David N.'s Avatar
David N.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by RUFFSTUFF
It's not made up... it's just a calculation to support the measurement of power. And since there are several different versions of how to calculate horsepower, its meaning and or value has been significantly reduced over the years. Mostly, the only thing horsepower is good for these days is bragging about something that is not understood.
Power has only one definition: Power = Force x Distance / Time

Horsepower is a specific unit of measure of power, and also has only one definition: 1 HP= 550 lbs x 1 ft / 1 sec. Something that produces one horsepower is capable of lifting 550 lbs one foot in one second.

There are many ways to measure power, just like there are many ways to measure torque, and with both, some ways are more accurate than others. However, there is only one way to calculate power.

Its meaning has not been reduced over the years, and if you think its only good for bragging, then you don't understand what it means.
 
Reply
Old Nov 27, 2010 | 11:21 AM
  #9435  
RUFFSTUFF's Avatar
RUFFSTUFF
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: Kingsland, GA
Originally Posted by David N.
Power has only one definition: Power = Force x Distance / Time

Horsepower is a specific unit of measure of power, and also has only one definition: 1 HP= 550 lbs x 1 ft / 1 sec. Something that produces one horsepower is capable of lifting 550 lbs one foot in one second.

There are many ways to measure power, just like there are many ways to measure torque, and with both, some ways are more accurate than others. However, there is only one way to calculate power.

Its meaning has not been reduced over the years, and if you think its only good for bragging, then you don't understand what it means.

Really now? Nope. One definition? Laughable.

Since I don't have access to some of my books now, here's an easy read:

Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't believe in your one definition theory. There are several types of horsepower whether you want to believe it or not. As well as there are several ways to calculate one type of horsepower or another.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 PM.

story-0
10 Ways Ford is LOSING to the Competition

Slideshow: 10 ways Ford is losing to the competition

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-15 09:52:01


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now

Some great targets in today's expensive world.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-15 09:35:19


VIEW MORE
story-2
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level

Slideshow: The VelociRaptor Expedition gains a lift, upgraded suspension, Brembo brakes, and trail-ready equipment while retaining the stock 440-horsepower EcoBoost V6.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-06-12 11:01:55


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals

Slideshow: Top 10 Fords at 2026 Ford Nationals

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-09 11:10:08


VIEW MORE
story-4
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership

Based on years of owning multiple modern Ford products.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-09 10:53:36


VIEW MORE
story-5
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches

SPONSORED: From muddy boots to rain-soaked cargo, these upgrades address some of the most common frustrations Ford truck owners face every day.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-06-08 18:50:34


VIEW MORE
story-6
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained

Here's everything you need to know about every Ford engine available for the 2026 model year.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-05 12:58:01


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Ford trucks that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 09:51:16


VIEW MORE
story-8
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: the best gifts for dads & grads

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 15:43:58


VIEW MORE
story-9
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-06-03 11:38:36


VIEW MORE