Gas vs PSD
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
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From: Isanti, MN
Do you not understand torque multiplication?
A 5.4L with just 350 ft lbs:
350 x 5.79 x 4.10=8308.6 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
A 6.0L with 570 ft-lbs:
570 x 3.11 x 4.10=7268.07 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
Yes, the manual trans 5.4L will get the load moving easier than the 6.0L with a Torqshift. Your engine torque means NOTHING with gearing that MULTIPLIES the torque.
JL
A 5.4L with just 350 ft lbs:
350 x 5.79 x 4.10=8308.6 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
A 6.0L with 570 ft-lbs:
570 x 3.11 x 4.10=7268.07 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
Yes, the manual trans 5.4L will get the load moving easier than the 6.0L with a Torqshift. Your engine torque means NOTHING with gearing that MULTIPLIES the torque.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
Darn it, can't stay away.
Do you not understand torque multiplication?
A 5.4L with just 350 ft lbs:
350 x 5.79 x 4.10=8308.6 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
A 6.0L with 570 ft-lbs:
570 x 3.11 x 4.10=7268.07 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
Yes, the manual trans 5.4L will get the load moving easier than the 6.0L with a Torqshift. Your engine torque means NOTHING with gearing that MULTIPLIES the torque.
JL
A 5.4L with just 350 ft lbs:
350 x 5.79 x 4.10=8308.6 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
A 6.0L with 570 ft-lbs:
570 x 3.11 x 4.10=7268.07 ftlbs to the rear wheels.
Yes, the manual trans 5.4L will get the load moving easier than the 6.0L with a Torqshift. Your engine torque means NOTHING with gearing that MULTIPLIES the torque.
JL
Fundamental problem exist here, Your not appying 350ft/lbs at idle when your taking off in L gear. if your revving to 3000rpm to take off, your not going to have much clutch left in short order.
I can powerbrake the 6.oL torqshift and help my launch by spooling a little bit.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
I believe for 5R110 it provides something like a 1.7x torque multiplication. Remember though, as soon as the transmission starts to spin the torque multiplication goes down.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
I think for my next truck I might look for a 6.4 manual a couple years old and save some money.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
Thats what it was made for.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Fundamental problem exist here, Your not appying 350ft/lbs at idle when your taking off in L gear. if your revving to 3000rpm to take off, your not going to have much clutch left in short order.
I can powerbrake the 6.oL torqshift and help my launch by spooling a little bit.
I can powerbrake the 6.oL torqshift and help my launch by spooling a little bit.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
Your correct, it does not. Never said it did. My point was that your only going to see that calculated rear-wheel torque number at peak torque on either engine and that it does not equate to faster take-offs.
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
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From: SE Texas
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,714
Likes: 1
From: Canton, IL
Slipping the clutch for a few seconds with no load is one thing. Slipping it from a start with the engine revving and a 10k load on a hill is another. More than a few seconds if you maintaining torque peak at take-off.
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
I think the way I would do it would be to rev the truck to the rev limiter and then let the clutch out as fast as I could with out either spinning the tires or dropping it under 3,000 RPMS or so. Then when I ran it over the HP peak in first I would shift into second kind of half way power shifting. Keeping the revs up during the shift and then letting the clutch out over about 2 seconds.
Of course thats only if I wanted to get everything I could out of it. I would not do that in normal driving and towing.
Of course thats only if I wanted to get everything I could out of it. I would not do that in normal driving and towing.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
I drove with stick shift most of my life and there are lot of trick that are different on different vehicles. On sedans in my younger years I would shift the gears with gas pedal firmly on the floor. That would give the car extra acceleration but with the cost of clutch life. Than most of the clutches can't handle full engine torque. I had a situation when with small car I was climbing extremely steep mountain road. The car died on 1st gear, so after sending passengers on foot, I said I will move it up no matter what. So I rev it to max torque rpm, kept it there and slowly released the clutch. After few seconds I realized that the engine is reving at max torque, the clutch if fully released but the car is not moving....That didn't burn the clutch yet, but definitely took some life out of it. Bottom line -I don't think this forum members want do do the trick I did when I was 16? Or do they?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
We can discuss this til we are blue in the face, but it will not change the fact that a 2000 5.4 4.10 with manual will touch a 6.2 with 4.30 auto or 6.0 with 3.73 auto.
The 5.4 is a dog in a super duty regardless of transmission, or gears or whatever math you want to put to it.
The 5.4 is a dog in a super duty regardless of transmission, or gears or whatever math you want to put to it.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
Many people are quite happy with their 5.4s in a Superduty. YOU wouldn't want one, and that's fine, but for others it does what they ask of it. Same for the V10.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
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From: WV
So I rev it to max torque rpm, kept it there and slowly released the clutch. After few seconds I realized that the engine is reving at max torque, the clutch if fully released but the car is not moving....That didn't burn the clutch yet, but definitely took some life out of it. Bottom line -I don't think this forum members want do do the trick I did when I was 16? Or do they?
