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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 01:08 AM
  #7186  
2001400ex's Avatar
2001400ex
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From: Spokane, WA
Originally Posted by Lead Head
Because you just can't do that. If you make them run the same gearing, same tire size, in the same transmission gear at the same speed. You are going to severally handicap one, while the other will be right in its sweet spot for power. A 5.4 makes most if its power around 5000 RPM, and it can handle that rpm, a 6.0 cannot. A 6.0 makes most of its power around 3200 RPM, a 5.4 doesn't and would be gimped.

You have to put each truck in a gear that puts the engine where it makes optimal power - because you CAN do that in the real world . Diesel guys seem to have this mentality that since their truck can't downshift 2-3 gears at highway speeds and rev out to 5000 RPM - that the gassers shouldn't be allowed to either - even though they can.

Will a gasoline engine get good fuel economy screaming at 5000 RPM up a hill? No. Will it be pleasant to hear/feel a gasoline engine screaming along at 5000 RPM up a hill? No. Will the engine last 1,000,000 miles screaming along at 5000 RPM? Probably not. But will a specific HP gasoline engine pull the same load as a diesel with the same HP if you let each engine go into their sweet spot for power? Yes it will.

That is why the diesel is the premium engine. It will let you pull the same load as the gasser but it will do it without revving out so high, get better fuel economy doing it, and with the latest generation of diesels probably quieter too.
Every test on here disproves what you say about the horsepower issue. Like I said two pages ago, the v10 on the second pull off was 9mph slower with a documented 15 hp difference, even programmed, which should give it a hp advantage it lost. Tell me one shred of proof to back what you are saying, because I have two forum pull offs and two magazine articles to prove what I am saying.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 08:55 AM
  #7187  
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Big George 75
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These trucks are not made to drag race with trailers. That is really good for your motor running 4 and 5 grand. Your truck was at 5 grand every time before it shifted. The PSD was smooth at 3 grand and only went up to 3500. What are you getting driving like that 7mpg? The PSD will get 12. I had a 2005 V-10 with 4:10 and for what I do with my truck the PSD is way better. If the V-10 is such a great motor why did they get rid of it for 2011? And running your truck and pulling the load you said you did in your video good luck finding all the pieces when either you blow up your motor or you roll your truck over pulling 21,000lbs at 80mph!
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 09:11 AM
  #7188  
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Johnny Langton
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Originally Posted by Big George 75
These trucks are not made to drag race with trailers. That is really good for your motor running 4 and 5 grand. Your truck was at 5 grand every time before it shifted. The PSD was smooth at 3 grand and only went up to 3500. What are you getting driving like that 7mpg? The PSD will get 12. I had a 2005 V-10 with 4:10 and for what I do with my truck the PSD is way better. If the V-10 is such a great motor why did they get rid of it for 2011? And running your truck and pulling the load you said you did in your video good luck finding all the pieces when either you blow up your motor or you roll your truck over pulling 21,000lbs at 80mph!
More diesel owner blind ignorance.
Again-repeating myself for those that choose to ignore facts.
Originally Posted by From previous posts
I had to go dig up my article on the torture testing that all of Ford's gasoline engines endure before they're released for public sale.
Besides meeting the performance goals
the Coyote had to pass all of Ford’s standard
durability tests
. These dyno sessions
are incredibly brutal, always far exceeding
what any rational customer would do to
his engine, and occasionally surpassing
what is physically possible in a car.
We observed some of this internal
combustion water-boarding, and for
anyone with a foot-pound of mechanical
sympathy it isn’t pretty. Engines run fatigue
cycles equivalent to 62 Daytona 500 races.
Others replicate customer drive cycles
for 1,000 running hours to include 1,000
cold starts, plus hitting its peak torque
and power for sustained periods. That test
alone runs 100 hours a week for two and
a half months.

We witnessed another torture session
where the engine was run at WOT for
several minutes, the headers glowing just
a hint of red, then the engine shut off and
after several seconds of sitting, -20 degree
ice water was forced through the cooling
system. Frost formed on the test rig as the
engine was about frozen to death, then the
ice water stopped, the engine started and
after a handful of seconds idling was taken
back to max rpm, max load for another
heat cycle up to 225 degrees. Each complete
cycle takes about 10 minutes, and
the engine must survive days of these nonstop
thermal shocks.
Most incredibly, “It can’t be on its last
legs at the end of the test,” says Mike. “It
can’t be that it hasn’t seized yet, we need
to see crosshatching on the cylinders, no
full-face ring wear, leak down needs to be
below, oh, eight percent; it has to be very,
very functional and could go do it again,
quite frankly.”
That is more than sufficient proof that the gasoline engine offerings are "tough enough" for use in just about anything,and will NOT be harmed by "screaming" at any RPM that it's designed to run at.
That's 4,000 HOURS of runtime at the engine's peak HP RPM and also the exact same test ran at the engine's peak Torque RPM.
JL
These are facts. 5000rpms WILL NOT harm a 6.8L. It WILL run at that RPM for DAYS on end without blowing up, or otherwise being damaged.
JL
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 10:17 AM
  #7189  
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krewat
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Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
He'd have probably argued about my datalog screenshots showing the unloaded 0-60 of 7.21 seconds too. I notice when I posted that before it never got any responses either.
JL
That's because the person talking about 7 second 0-60's can no longer post here.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 01:47 PM
  #7190  
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Originally Posted by 2001400ex
Every test on here disproves what you say about the horsepower issue. Like I said two pages ago, the v10 on the second pull off was 9mph slower with a documented 15 hp difference, even programmed, which should give it a hp advantage it lost.
I take it you have never driven a truck with a 4R100?


Originally Posted by Big George 75
. If the V-10 is such a great motor why did they get rid of it for 2011?
They dropped it in the F250 and F350 and moved it up to the F650 and F750.


Originally Posted by Big George 75
And running your truck and pulling the load you said you did in your video good luck finding all the pieces when either you blow up your motor or you roll your truck over pulling 21,000lbs at 80mph!
Why is towing at 80 such a big deal to some of you, and why would it blow the motor?
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 02:11 PM
  #7191  
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Originally Posted by Fishin76
Your comparing gearing and not the engines. Put both tucks in the same gearing at the same speed with the same load on the same grade, gotta be apples to apples or all of us are just blowing hot air and wearing out keyboards.
If I compare them in the same gear at the same speed then every comparison will have to be done under 3,000 rpm. That eliminates half of my rpm's on my 5.4. If you want apples to apples and think it isn't fair that the gasser can turn high rpm's and the psd can't then take the turbo off of the psd and let's see how they do. The psd comes from the factory with a turbo and the gasser comes with the ability to turn more rpm's.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 02:24 PM
  #7192  
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Originally Posted by bill11012
I take it you have never driven a truck with a 4R100?



They dropped it in the F250 and F350 and moved it up to the F650 and F750.




Why is towing at 80 such a big deal to some of you, and why would it blow the motor?

Never heard about the V10 being in the 650/750, thought it was 450/550 that it is still in?
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 02:24 PM
  #7193  
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phillips91
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From: Rogersville, TN
Originally Posted by 2001400ex
Every test on here disproves what you say about the horsepower issue. Like I said two pages ago, the v10 on the second pull off was 9mph slower with a documented 15 hp difference, even programmed, which should give it a hp advantage it lost. Tell me one shred of proof to back what you are saying, because I have two forum pull offs and two magazine articles to prove what I am saying.
I already explained this to you. The v10 in the pull off had as much peak hp as the 6.0 but due to the crappy gearing and tranny it never reached the rpm where it made peak power. It makes a peak hp of 310 but at the rpm it got hung at it makes less power than my 5.4. Johnny also explained the fact that the 6.0 has a 5 speed tranny and the v10 only had a 4 speed. That makes a huge difference in getting a load moving. He even posted the gear ratios for you to show that the v10 was basically pulling out in the 6.0's 2nd gear.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 04:35 PM
  #7194  
bill11012's Avatar
bill11012
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Originally Posted by rollerstud98
Never heard about the V10 being in the 650/750, thought it was 450/550 that it is still in?
The first year for the V10 and new 6 speed auto in the F650 and F750 is either 2011 or 2012.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 08:19 PM
  #7195  
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2001400ex
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From: Spokane, WA
Originally Posted by bill11012
I take it you have never driven a truck with a 4R100?



They dropped it in the F250 and F350 and moved it up to the F650 and F750.




Why is towing at 80 such a big deal to some of you, and why would it blow the motor?
Originally Posted by phillips91
I already explained this to you. The v10 in the pull off had as much peak hp as the 6.0 but due to the crappy gearing and tranny it never reached the rpm where it made peak power. It makes a peak hp of 310 but at the rpm it got hung at it makes less power than my 5.4. Johnny also explained the fact that the 6.0 has a 5 speed tranny and the v10 only had a 4 speed. That makes a huge difference in getting a load moving. He even posted the gear ratios for you to show that the v10 was basically pulling out in the 6.0's 2nd gear.
So which is it? Horsepower is all that matters, but if the v10 has way better gears and a 5 speed tranny, and srw rather than drw it will only lose by 5 seconds, but it will still out pull a psd. LOL

Show me one apple to apple test where a v10 wins. Please. You still haven't. LOL all you have is math on paper and excuses when you lose!
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 08:51 PM
  #7196  
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2001400ex
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And yes I have driven a 2002 psd several times and been in his truck for probably 5,000 miles towing campers, snowmobiles, Jeeps, etc. Through the mountains of MT and ID.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2010 | 09:18 PM
  #7197  
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See, the problem with what your saying is it only takes into account get a load going.
Nobody is saying that a V10 can get a load rolling as fast as a PSD with the same gearing, or as close as the factory made to the same.

I know a PSD has a slight edge there, but if you keep pulling for any real distance on that hill than the V10 will catch and pass the PSD.

That test the V10 was gaining speed after the PSD stopped. It would have caught it if the hill was longer.

And DRW or SRW does not make THAT much diffrence in weight, and each one had the best pulling gears Ford sold. Please stop acting like the V10 truck had some unfair advantage.

If they get the 2V V10 and 6.0 on that hill again I am going to try and get them to both run it once in 2 WD low range. That will even out the 4R100 vs 5R110 gearing and let the V10 rev. If thats done then that V10 will pull just as hard as the 6.0.
A 3V would blow it out of the water.
 
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Old Aug 15, 2010 | 10:05 AM
  #7198  
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Originally Posted by 2001400ex
So which is it? Horsepower is all that matters, but if the v10 has way better gears and a 5 speed tranny, and srw rather than drw it will only lose by 5 seconds, but it will still out pull a psd. LOL

Show me one apple to apple test where a v10 wins. Please. You still haven't. LOL all you have is math on paper and excuses when you lose!
Horsepower is what matters. The 6.0 has more low end hp than the v10, so it can get a load moving faster. It also has a huge gearing advantage. The v10 in the test did not have the low end hp to get the load moving so it never reached peak hp. I would put my 5.4 up against that v10 in the same test and do just as good or better. You keep wanting apples to apples but you ignore where the v10 beat the 7.3, which is apples to apples. Or claim something was wrong with it just because the v10 beat it. Then you want to compare a 6.0 with a 5 speed against a 2v v10 with a 4 speed. How is that apples to apples?
 
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Old Aug 15, 2010 | 10:10 AM
  #7199  
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Originally Posted by bill11012
I know a PSD has a slight edge there, but if you keep pulling for any real distance on that hill than the V10 will catch and pass the PSD.
Bring your V10 out here and we'll run it up Vail Pass...(I knew that would stop you)

That test the V10 was gaining speed after the PSD stopped. It would have caught it if the hill was longer.
21...22.........23.................24............. ............25mph? I have YET to see this "test" that showed a V10 catching up to a PSD towing up a hill. I saw Tom having to slow down to get around a corner in his PSD, but strangely enough, the V10 didn't have that issue....
 
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Old Aug 15, 2010 | 10:40 AM
  #7200  
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Vail Pass, vail pass, vail pass, vail pass...Do you think that's the only hill in the world or is it just the only hill you've ever seen? I'll tell you what, how about posting a vid of your bad self going up it with all the broken V10's alongside the road? BTW, I'll put McClellan Mountain up against ANY hill you can find as far as a true test for any truck's ability to pull. It's rough, narrow and the first turn is a 15 mph U-turn that leads to about 10 miles (more or less) of steep, twisty road with lots more U-turns in it. Average speed up it in an empty truck or car would be about 25-35 mph, and going down is worse, since after your brakes are hot, you get to try that 15mph, 270 degree U-turn at the end. Next time I'm out there (look it up, it's about 25 miles east of 101 on hwy 36) I'll snap some pics.
 
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