what are you agreeing with? im confused?

actually we have already figured that out like 20-30 pages ago. there is a big enough difference im mpg to cost to make diesel fuel actually cheaper in the long run.

 

I'm agreeing with you, that diesel's are a better all around towing engine.

 

For the mpg thing, I depends on what engine and gearing you have I guess. I still think though that even with the higher fuel costs, the diesel will be cheaper in the long run. Although I haven't measured it, I bet the that the difference in mpg is magnified when towing, which is what the discussion was about.

What I'm talking though is for a towing engine. That would imply you are going to be towing all the time with the truck. So things like WOT acceleration really don't matter because few people are going to be doing WOT every time they take off towing something. In fact I tow horses, so WOT take offs while towing are completely out of the question. The diesel will have an "easier" time towing heavy loads all the time than the V10. The V10 can do it, though.

For the person who tows occasionally, the V10 can do it too, so that works for them. I obviously fall into that category.

I already went into the whole thing about why diesel is a superior fuel over gas and don't want to repost it. In short though, diesel will make more power at lower RPM's making it a better fuel for towing, assuming you want to keep your RPM's down.

Yes, you can slap a turbo on a V10, some have done it; but the PSD comes with a turbo and the V10 does not and diverging into moded trucks is not something I'm going to dive into, it's like diving into an ammunition bunker that's on fire.

 

None of us(at least me in particular) have ever said torque does not matter. Tractive force(torque) is what gets a load moving, but that can come from either the engine or from the gearing.

Compare a v10 with an auto and 3.73 against the same v10 with a manual and 4.10. At 3,250 rpm with both in 1st gear, the auto is going to have a tractive force of 4,557 and the manual is going to be 10,692. They are producing the same engine torque, same rear wheel hp and same engine hp. The only difference is tractive force, which is altered by the gearing.

Johnny. That is exactly what we were talking about the other day. It isn't that the gasser CAN'T do the same job as the psd, it just does it differently. Take a hill that my 7.3 and 5.4 can both climb in 5th gear unloaded. On that same hill my 7.3 can pull a trailer in 5th gear at 2000 rpm where my 5.4 has to be a gear lower and a thousand or so rpm higher. Either way, they both maintain speed, both use more fuel going up the hill loaded than unloaded(turbo not blowing when unloaded, but screaming when loaded) and both make it to the top without breaking down. I agree with the diesel guys about fuel costs though. Even with diesel being 40 cents more per gallon here, it is still a lot cheaper for me to drive m 7.3 than my 5.4.

 

i dont remember saying that but i might have, however, i think that the diesel engine in general, not speaking straight for psd but in general is an overall bedder engine. efficiancy to power raiting and duability. thats why your seeing more of them come out in cars. the real only downside to them is that there more expensive. but as soon as you see more cars and light duty trucks with them the will be a lot cheaper. i would like to see in the future 1500 trucks with 4bts or v6 turbo charged diesels. but thats just me

 

I think its safe to say the diesel wins this argument, efficiency and durability is the most important. I think the gasser guys are just trying to defend their pride and joy. ha and i dont know about you but I would much rather pull a trailer up a hill at 2300 rpms than to redline the engine at 4500 to 5000 and think its going to blow up.

 

In fact they should get a diesel and run it at its max HP and TQ rpm and a gas at its max and see who's blows up first. Its a harsh test but you'll know for sure what engine is built to last.

 

Blind Ignorance.
My V10 truck will pull the IDENTICAL SAME load in Drive as a PSD does in OD,and it is NOT turning 4500-5000 rpms.
JL

 

In the case of a 7.3L-yes,this is true. But, the facts of the matter are that the 7.3L's days are numbered. They're no longer being built, the truck that they are in are all at the very least 7 years old, and the miles are piling up. So,that leaves the next in line diesels-the 6.0L,the 6.4L, and the 6.7L. The 6.0L has proven itself with it's reliability record,and the 6.4L with it's fuel economy. Enough so that corporations that use trucks on a daily basis for work are running as fast as they can from them due to the costs of repairs and fuel, and equipping their trucks with gasoline engines when they order them. I like the 7.3L as much as you do, but wisdom and experience have both taught me that the 6.0L and 6.4L are a bad choice for 90%+ of the population that purchase an F250/350,and that either of those will cost the owners more than the V10 or even a 5.4L over the time that they will own the trucks.
JL

 

Actually, no. I can't think of a more worthless cost. The only way it is financially feasible to finance a truck is if the interest rate is less than the time value of the money I use to pay for it. In other words, if the rate of return of $45,000 in my investment account is 5% per annum and the interest rate is 2%, then it makes more sense to keep the money in savings and finance the truck. However, the difference for me is not significant enough to have to deal with a payment. You're right though, almost all truck buyers use financing so the argument is sound.

Did you borrow from you 401k to pay for your truck? If you did, then we need to talk because you paid significant tax penalties to do that. Did you change your contribution percentage so you could buy your truck? Would you have needed to borrow $7,000 from your 401k to buy a psd if you had chosen to buy one? If the answer to all of these questions is 'no', then the value of your 401k is irrelevant.

That argument is not supported by economics. If the 6.7 is proven to be a great engine, it may have an effect on the resale of a 6.4, but probably not as large as you think. If the 6.7 is deemed "great", it will not depreciate nearly as fast as a 6.4. Therefore, it's value will always remain much higher, thereby pricing a significant number of potential buyers right of the market. The 6.4 will remain a capable, less expensive option. It's resale may suffer a little bit but the rate of depreciation will probably remain relatively stable.

 

And the diesel will blow past you. The diesel will be at its max while your truck is lugging it.

 

Thats not even close to true.

 

Like I said,blind ignorance. He's showing it there.
JL

 

Sounds like someone is trying to justify their purchase

 

Let me ask you something then, Why is every heavy machinery, truck, ship, tractor all diesel? If gas is so great and under rated how come there isn't a gas semi in production?
And why are companies starting to move toward diesel as a alternative fuel source? And im sure since ford has several engine options they are going to put there best most powerful engine as the highest option right? I even have a buddy that bought a 2006 v10 that he found for a great deal that a old couple were selling since they never used it. He got a unheard of deal and couldn't afford the same truck in diesel. But after owning it, he said if he could do it all over again he would have bought the diesel in a heart beat. And that is coming from a cross-country full time trucker who tows for a living. Same with my father, drives a semi for a living and knows that a diesel is the best engine to do the job.