Ok, Guess I didn't get that part. I saw this statement by Crazy001, "Torque can be multiplied and divided through gearing. Horsepower can't. I can double something's torque output by running it through a reduction gear; horsepower will stay the same', and assumed that he meant adding something like a brownie box or something

My mistake....

 

well it wont last longer than my psd because i dont need to downshift to pull my load like you v10 guys do. and running at that high rpm is reaking havic on that engine. go ahead and run 74 in second gear for two hours and let me know how much the tow truck charged to haul you back.

 

I could run 74 in second all day and not hurt it at all.
If its holding 74 I would upshift to third, but thats beside the point.

The RPMs are not reaking havic, it was built for it.
Thats like saying your 18/1 CR is reaking havic.

 

That's exactly what I meant. But I am NOT a "V10 guy!" Never owned a V10 in my life...

Fishin76, good example with the pry bars. Makes it easier to understand the concept between the two.

Josh, great example. I remember writing up something similar 40 or 50 pages back like that...

It just never ends!

 

Agreed, very good refresher by you guys. I was going to reference crazy's example he did way back about downshifting and the gasser putting more torque to the ground than the PSD, but Josh did it and a good job of it.

This comes up every so often in this thread, mostly by people that haven't been reading the thread from the beginning. You guys need to keep those examples on hand and just cut and paste them in.

However, you will still get those that are stubborn and think just because it's a gasser, it can't tow heavy.

 

I'm not sure what kind of conditions (load weight and hill length) would exist to cause me to run my V10 for two hours at 74 mph in second gear, but I would bet you money that my truck would do it a heck of a lot easier than any diesel would. I don't think there's a diesel made that would do that! Anway, ridiculous comments aside, V10's an 5.4's LOOOVE rpm's, and for some reason PSD owners (and even some V10 owners) can't seem to grasp that concept. Also, did you know that lots and lots of tow trucks and pretty much all shuttle buses use V10 Fords? And around here anyway, those tow trucks have a whole lot more diesels on the rack as opposed to V10's...

 

Since we're all re-iterating what we've already said in the past.....
Torque comes from compression. Whether that compression is fixed(as in a N/A gasoline or diesel engine), or variable(due to dynamic compression from forced induction),the result is the same-more compression will always yield more torque. The entire reason turbo-diesels are able to cruise with a load at low RPM is the fact that there is a turbocharger under the hood dynamically increasing compression and the resulting torque increase from that turbocharger cramming more air down it's throat. Airflow=power. More airflow=more power. More power=more torque. None of this is being debated or argued by anybody here. What the diesel guys are being blinded by is the "My truck pulls better because I can cruise at 2K RPM all day long and never downshift,so it's the superior engine. That gasoline engine has to constantly downshift-it won't pull crap".
That is simply ignorant. The diesel doesn't cruise all day long at 2K RPM with a load just because it's a diesel-it's because it's equipped with a turbocharger. If you really believe that this is not the case-I invite you to go tow with ANY comparably sized N/A diesel-you're in for a rude awakening.
Installing a turbocharger with only 6-8 psi on the 6.8L would allow the EXACT same towing behavior.It's not magic-it's really simple.
JL

 

I strongly suspect that the huge majority of today's "long-time diesel owners" have never driven an un-blown diesel. As someone who has, let me assure you Johnny Langton has just made the truest statement you will ever read. Turbos are what makes diesels useful as anything but a boat anchor.

 

I've driven all 3 (N/A diesel, turbocharged diesel, and gasoline),and do have experience with all of them. In all fairness, boat anchor is probably a bit harsh. I actually own a N/A diesel right now-it's in a piece of equipment. It sees a constant 3200rpms when in use, is not direct injection, and does it's job amazingly well. It's a 778cc 3 cylinder with orange paint on the outside. It makes 21hp@3200rpms, and cuts the hell out of grass all day long.
JL

 

Us diesel owners are in a lose, lose situation here. IF a v 10 outpulls us then it will be " I told you so". But if the diesel wins then we get " Well your truck has a turbo and its heavier and we are not at sea level and i got a bad batch of gas and so on. I will say again i have owned a v10, 5.4, 7.3, 6.0, and by this fall maybe a 6.7. The diesel engines are the only ones that can withstand the abuse i put on them and still be reliable. Pulling a 30 ft gooseneck loaded with 750 gallons of farm diesel, 1500 gallons of water and tool boxes filled with cotton picker parts around south texas in july is no easy task.

 

Anytime I think of a N/A diesel, my mind automatically snaps to two vehicles, one is amid-to-late '80's Olds that one of my parent's freinds had. It was a turd that got great mileage and stunk like poop. The other was my father-in-laws early '80's Chevy with the 350 diesel. It was the vey slowest and least powerful pickup I have ever driven. I strongly suspect it was making less than 100 hp on it's very best day. It had NO torque, got terrible mileage and had such a low redline that making power with rpm's was out of the question. It was completely without value in my opinion and I really don't know how they ever sold the second one.

 

I have never said that or made excuses for my V10. I have driven many diesels and know full well they can out-pull my V10 and some (not all) get better mileage while doing it. If I towed like you tow (I don't) I would HAVE to buy a diesel, I think it's silly not to. But I see too many guys who happen to own diesel truck make the statement that V10's can't work, are not worth owning and the only reason they even exist is that poeple that weren't smart enough to buy a diesel got conned into buying them. I love my V10 and in fact flew to Utah to buy it because all the dealers in my area were just pushing the diesels and didn't want to even look for a nice used V10 for me. Now that I've had it for a few months I'm glad I bought it. It's my daily driver and get's liveable mileage (14+) and tows what I need it to tow all at a price I can afford. That's why they sell different trucks, for different needs. That's all I've ever said from the beginning.

 

I know you're not a v10 guy, but the gear reduction unit was mentioned about 50 pages back by the v10 guys. Sorry to lump you in the same category as "them" haha.

The thing with my example is that we are A) pulling a load that is so heavy that neither engine can shift to the next gear B) we started from a rolling start at ~3,000 rpm and C) we are holding them at the rpm that they make PEAK hp.

That is a test the v10 will win every time. In the real world (or a shoot out from a dead stop) you have to use ALL rpm's and not just peak hp. If you took the hp ratings of each engine every 100 rpm's and averaged them, your PSD would have a higher average hp than the v10 even though it has less peak hp. The v10 you raced was a tuned 2v, so a little less hp than a 3v, but from a dead stop you beat it by 20 mph and you had to let off the gas because you were going too fast.

 

That depends on which one you are talking about. The 6.9 had 310 lbs of torque at 1,600 rpm and 175 hp. That would put it on par with my stock 5.0 truck that makes 185 hp and 270 tq. The difference is, the 6.9 will do at 1,600 rpm what my 5.0 has to turn 4k rpm to do. The 7.3 had 185 hp and 360 tq, which would put it on par with a 5.8 that had 210 hp and 325 tq. It actually more low end torque and would do a better job cruising at 60 mph than the current 5.4. The 5.4 would run off and leave it once you downshifted though. Not exactly what I would call "boat anchorish", but not going to win many shoot outs.

 

Nice post, sandman. If your pulling a load heavier than 10,000lbs, a powerstroke is going to outpull, pull easier, and outlast. Speaking from experience of towing a loaded goosenck with two 7.3L's and one V10 (NEIGHBOR'S).