Gas vs PSD
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
They every bit as long as the PSD. I can start out from a stop grossing 20K as fast as a stock PSD of the same year, and once I get it going its much faster.
Not sure about the HP/TQ for $2200.
Not sure about the HP/TQ for $2200.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 696
Likes: 1
From: Melissa TX
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Nope. My older model V10 is 15 HP short of the 6.0, 40 HP short of the 6.4 and 80 HP short of the new 6.7.
In the year it was made, it was the hardest pulling light truck engine on the market at 310HP and 435TQ. The 05 and newer V10 makes 362HP and 457TQ.
In the year it was made, it was the hardest pulling light truck engine on the market at 310HP and 435TQ. The 05 and newer V10 makes 362HP and 457TQ.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
My brother-out-law bought a 2000 Ford F250 diesel that was already modded. He couldn't explain it all but it has been chipped and has a remote to change the tune on the fly. It is turbo charged with custom exhaust. It also has propane injection (first time I had seen that,) and bottom line, it flys! He claims 21 mpg too!!!
Sound right to you guys?
Sound right to you guys?
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
I will agree with you that torque is important, but torque to the rear wheels, not the crankshaft, is what is important. Take this for example. A 6.4 with a 4.10 gear and 6 speed manual against a 6.8 with a 4.10 and 6 speed manual. The manual has a 3.30 1st gear, so a 13.53 final drive ratio. 2nd has a 2.1 ratio for an 8.61 final drive ratio.
By the time they reach 3,000 rpm both will have a rear wheel rpm of 222. (3,000/13.53=222). At that point they are doing the exact same speed(but not at the same point on the road since the 6.4 pulled out faster) but the 6.4 is pulling the load easier than the v10. At 3,000 rpm the 6.4 is making 350 hp and the v10 is making 261 hp. Rear wheel tq is 350x5252/3,000 rpm=8,280 for the 6.4 and 261x5252/3,000=6,175 for the v10.
Now, the 6.4 has pulled as far as it can go and has to shift to 2nd while the v10 can pull another 2-3k rpm easily. The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again and the v10 has pulled to 5,000 rpm in 1st. In 2nd at 3,000 rpm the 6.4 has a rear wheel rpm of 3,000/8.61=348 rpm. The v10 is at 5,000 rpm in 1st and has a rear wheel rpm of 5,000/13.53=369 rpm. The v10 is now going faster in 1st than the 6.4 can go in 2nd.
Rear wheel torque at this point is 350x5252/348=5,282 for the 6.4 and 362x5252/369=5,152 for the v10. The 6.4 is putting a little more tq to the ground, but the v10 is closing the gap and is going faster(though still behind in the race). Once the 6.4 has to hit 3rd gear because it has ran out of rpms, the v10 is still going to be in 2nd gear, gaining speed and actually putting more tq to the ground as it passes the 6.4. Funny thing is, that is exactly what happened in the magazine test that someone posted back on about page 5......
By the time they reach 3,000 rpm both will have a rear wheel rpm of 222. (3,000/13.53=222). At that point they are doing the exact same speed(but not at the same point on the road since the 6.4 pulled out faster) but the 6.4 is pulling the load easier than the v10. At 3,000 rpm the 6.4 is making 350 hp and the v10 is making 261 hp. Rear wheel tq is 350x5252/3,000 rpm=8,280 for the 6.4 and 261x5252/3,000=6,175 for the v10.
Now, the 6.4 has pulled as far as it can go and has to shift to 2nd while the v10 can pull another 2-3k rpm easily. The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again and the v10 has pulled to 5,000 rpm in 1st. In 2nd at 3,000 rpm the 6.4 has a rear wheel rpm of 3,000/8.61=348 rpm. The v10 is at 5,000 rpm in 1st and has a rear wheel rpm of 5,000/13.53=369 rpm. The v10 is now going faster in 1st than the 6.4 can go in 2nd.
Rear wheel torque at this point is 350x5252/348=5,282 for the 6.4 and 362x5252/369=5,152 for the v10. The 6.4 is putting a little more tq to the ground, but the v10 is closing the gap and is going faster(though still behind in the race). Once the 6.4 has to hit 3rd gear because it has ran out of rpms, the v10 is still going to be in 2nd gear, gaining speed and actually putting more tq to the ground as it passes the 6.4. Funny thing is, that is exactly what happened in the magazine test that someone posted back on about page 5......
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
As for them being slow, a lot of that has to do with perception. When I get on it in my 7.3 from a stop or rolling start at low rpm's it takes off a lot faster than my 5.4. That is because it is already in its power band when I let the clutch out. With my 5.4, it is a smoother transition into peak power, so it doesn't throw you back in the seat. Put a clock on it though, and my 5.4 comes out ahead by quite a bit. It's like comparing an old big block gas engine to a small cube turbo engine.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 696
Likes: 1
From: Melissa TX
So save money cause I get better mpg with my psd. Plus I put 50k miles or more on my truck each year. So it makes sense to me.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
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From: WV
Man, i don't understand the arguement here.. every V10 i have ever come across whether it was on the street unloaded trying to race me, pulling heavy, or on the drag strip didn't do anything impressive nor has one been able to out run me yet.. So whats supposed to be so cool about the V10's? they don't last long, all their power is in the higher RPM band so taking off from a stop grossing 20k must really suck, and they are slow... pointless engine. V10s should be in cars where high RPM has a purpose, not a truck that weighs 8000 lbs.
What is the torque like on a decently modded V10 anyways? i ask b/c i don't know. decently modded means spending less than around $2200...
What is the torque like on a decently modded V10 anyways? i ask b/c i don't know. decently modded means spending less than around $2200...
You have way different needs for your truck than I do. Your main concern is drag strip and racing, I could careless about that. If I wanted that, i would have bought a car for that, not a truck, but what ever. I bought my truck to tow a trailer about 1,000 miles a year. I didn't want to spend more money than I had to, I didn't see the point of spending $7k when I didn't need to...
And as for all there power being in the high RPM's, you better take a look at those power curves again, because the V10 makes 90% of it's torque at 1500 RPMs. The cheif engineer for the 2011 SD said the new 6.2L gasser can take off at a 15% grade with 15k load. The V10 devlopes more torque at lower RPMs the new 6.2, so it should be able to do more, although it's only rated to tow around 15k in most applications.
Lastly, I've always held that the PSD is a better engine, it just costs to much.
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Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,101
Likes: 40
From: Pa
Man, i don't understand the arguement here.. every V10 i have ever come across whether it was on the street unloaded trying to race me, pulling heavy, or on the drag strip didn't do anything impressive nor has one been able to out run me yet.. So whats supposed to be so cool about the V10's? they don't last long, all their power is in the higher RPM band so taking off from a stop grossing 20k must really suck, and they are slow... pointless engine. V10s should be in cars where high RPM has a purpose, not a truck that weighs 8000 lbs.
What is the torque like on a decently modded V10 anyways? i ask b/c i don't know. decently modded means spending less than around $2200...
What is the torque like on a decently modded V10 anyways? i ask b/c i don't know. decently modded means spending less than around $2200...
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
And lets not forget the fuel costs more, so the 3 mpg increase isn't that big of deal.
For example, gas around me right now is going for 2.65 and oil for 2.95. Lets say a V10 get 12 mpg and PSD gets 15mpg, that mostly city driving. I'll even let the PSD go to 16 just to stop complaints before hand. Lets see how much your save after 100,000 miles...
V10: 100000/12= 8333 gallons. 8333x 2.65=$22,083
PSD: 100000/16=6250 gallons. 6250x2.95=$18,437
So after 100,000 miles you'll save $3645. then there is maintance, but I wont go there. The point is you'll see $3645 saving in 2 years, I'll see it in 12.5 years. That means you'll see $1822 fuel savings a year with the PSD and I'll see $291 fuel savings a year with the PSD.
If you want to go highway it looks even worse for me... with the V10 gets about 14 and the PSD getting 18mpg, you get $1269 per year and I get $203 per a year in fuel savings. After 100,000 miles, the PSd will use $16388 and the V10 $18928 for a difference of $2,539.
anyway, I think you see my point, unless you drive miles like yourself, the PSD just doesn't save that much money.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
I wasn't arguing that the psd was faster. I was arguing in favor of the gasser in that aspect with my post. You were saying saying the psd makes more torque than the v10, so I was giving you an example that shows that even though the psd makes an ungodly amount of torque at the crank when compared to the v10, it doesn't all translate into torque at the wheels. The psd puts more torque to the ground when comparing them in the same gear at the same rpm, but as the psd runs out of rpms and has to change gears, the v10 will catch up to it and pass it.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Likes: 17
From: Melbourne, Ky
My brother-out-law bought a 2000 Ford F250 diesel that was already modded. He couldn't explain it all but it has been chipped and has a remote to change the tune on the fly. It is turbo charged with custom exhaust. It also has propane injection (first time I had seen that,) and bottom line, it flys! He claims 21 mpg too!!!
Sound right to you guys?
Sound right to you guys?
BTW, You haven't answered my question I posted for you earlier. Do you have any plans to drive your motorhome to this part of the country?
Edit: I know you remember Markadeck, he was getting over 20mpg with his PSD. It was a 2000 or so truck too. His truck was a 2 wheel drive, 6 speed truck with a DP Tuner. Running 60 mph in the 80 economy mode, he got great mileage. You've got to drive it easy though to get that kind of mileage. The rule of thumb with the 7.3 is for every 5mph you go over 60 mph it will cost you between 1 and 2 mpg.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 696
Likes: 1
From: Melissa TX
Yes, for you that makes sense, for me (who drives 7-8k miles a year) it doesn't. And I fully agree, even if you don't tow often, if you drive 50k miles a year the PSD is probably a better choice just because of the mpg. But for me, I won't put enough miles on my truck to justify the increase in mpg.
And lets not forget the fuel costs more, so the 3 mpg increase isn't that big of deal.
For example, gas around me right now is going for 2.65 and oil for 2.95. Lets say a V10 get 12 mpg and PSD gets 15mpg, that mostly city driving. I'll even let the PSD go to 16 just to stop complaints before hand. Lets see how much your save after 100,000 miles...
V10: 100000/12= 8333 gallons. 8333x 2.65=$22,083
PSD: 100000/16=6250 gallons. 6250x2.95=$18,437
So after 100,000 miles you'll save $3645. then there is maintance, but I wont go there. The point is you'll see $3645 saving in 2 years, I'll see it in 12.5 years. That means you'll see $1822 fuel savings a year with the PSD and I'll see $291 fuel savings a year with the PSD.
If you want to go highway it looks even worse for me... with the V10 gets about 14 and the PSD getting 18mpg, you get $1269 per year and I get $203 per a year in fuel savings. After 100,000 miles, the PSd will use $16388 and the V10 $18928 for a difference of $2,539.
anyway, I think you see my point, unless you drive miles like yourself, the PSD just doesn't save that much money.
And lets not forget the fuel costs more, so the 3 mpg increase isn't that big of deal.
For example, gas around me right now is going for 2.65 and oil for 2.95. Lets say a V10 get 12 mpg and PSD gets 15mpg, that mostly city driving. I'll even let the PSD go to 16 just to stop complaints before hand. Lets see how much your save after 100,000 miles...
V10: 100000/12= 8333 gallons. 8333x 2.65=$22,083
PSD: 100000/16=6250 gallons. 6250x2.95=$18,437
So after 100,000 miles you'll save $3645. then there is maintance, but I wont go there. The point is you'll see $3645 saving in 2 years, I'll see it in 12.5 years. That means you'll see $1822 fuel savings a year with the PSD and I'll see $291 fuel savings a year with the PSD.
If you want to go highway it looks even worse for me... with the V10 gets about 14 and the PSD getting 18mpg, you get $1269 per year and I get $203 per a year in fuel savings. After 100,000 miles, the PSd will use $16388 and the V10 $18928 for a difference of $2,539.
anyway, I think you see my point, unless you drive miles like yourself, the PSD just doesn't save that much money.
Elder User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: WV
I wasn't arguing that the psd was faster. I was arguing in favor of the gasser in that aspect with my post. You were saying saying the psd makes more torque than the v10, so I was giving you an example that shows that even though the psd makes an ungodly amount of torque at the crank when compared to the v10, it doesn't all translate into torque at the wheels. The psd puts more torque to the ground when comparing them in the same gear at the same rpm, but as the psd runs out of rpms and has to change gears, the v10 will catch up to it and pass it.
gotchya
Although I'm not quite willing to say my V10 will out tow a PSD on a hill. The turbo allows for a better torque curve on the PSd than the V10.
