Hmm maybe we should have some sort of birthday party?

 

Driving empty down the road is kind of a moot point, both engines are so powerful, neither has to work hard. My V10 rarely sees anything above 2k RPM's driving around the city and I just keep up with the flow of traffic.

Certainly I agree the PSD is the better engine for mpg (it has the rear end) and it even the better engine for towing, specially if you are towing all the time.

My original comment though was with regard to my situation. I drive about 7,000-8,000 miles a year. Probably about 2,000 of that is long highway (driving back home to see the family, about 200 miles one way) and the rest is stop and go. It can take me 40-50 minutes to get home sometimes, and I live 4.5 miles from work. I tow my horse trailer less than 1,000 miles a year, and that is the only time I need a truck period. My trailer weighs in fully loaded around 12,000lbs., hence I need some muscle, hence the reason I went with the 6.8 instead of the 5.4. But for me, the PSD just doesn't make sense. The V10 with the 4.30 can easily tow what I need it to, and I just don't drive enough for the mpg to matter.

I don't think anyone can say I need to spend the $7k extra the extra power. Yes, the PSD will have an easier time, but my truck spends a majority of the time lumbering around empty, and honestly I think that would be a waste of money to have diesel for that, aka over kill.

As I said earlier, the PSD will certainly have an easier time towing, but $7k is quite a bit of cash just so my truck has an easier time towing 1,000 miles a year.

BTW, I believe you can get 18 mpg on the highway. I can get close to 14-15 at those speeds on flat land on the highway, there is no reason with your gearing you couldn't beat me by at least 3 mpg. Getting 18 mpg when mixed 50:50 highway and city I would call BS really quickly though. You just can't accelerate 7,000 lbs of metal without using some energy.

 

For $7,000 would you ride your horses 1000 miles? You could sell the horse trailer and save a lot in gas too!

 

True. The truth is though the truck is limited to around 15k in SRW form. The PSD can tow 15k with a 3.55 rear end. So why put a more aggressive rear end that will not help towing capacity and just eat more fuel? For the V10 to pull 15k, it need a more aggressive rear end because it is simple less powerful. The PSD is diesel to help produce more power at lower RPMs and it has a turbo, it will clearly be a superior engine for towing, as I have already mentioned.

By comparison (and I have feeling this is going to bite me) you can go to DRW and get the PSD with a 4.10 rear end. Then you bump the towing to the 18,000 lb range. So the PSD does work well with a 4.10 rear end, it just there is no reason to put one in the SRW because you can still only tow around 15,000 lbs and will eat more fuel (again CC, 4x4, SRW).

 

Not all of those miles are with the horse though, we also go camping in it. It has a living quarters with a shower, bathroom and 2 beds.

 

Not really, again, we can compare both engines with a 4.10 in DRW form. The V10 with a 4.10 (interestingly you can't get the V10 DRW with 4.30) can tow 15,500lbs while the PSD can tow 17,700 (both CC, 4x4, DRW). The tranny will just keep shifting to keep the engine in its peak towing point, and the PSD simply has more torque than the V10.

Thing is, I've had DRW, and I never want that again since I drive mostly city. So for me, those numbers are irrelevant.

 

As I've always said, gearing is a moot point. OF COURSE you gear the V10 lower than the PSD, it's a higher-revving engine.

Take for instance (again) the case of two electric motors. BOTH are 1HP. One spins at 3600 RPMs to produce that 1HP, the other spins at 1800 RPMs to produce 1HP.

If you use either one in an industrial air conditioner to run the fan, OF COURSE you use pulleys of the correct size to run the fan at the same speed, which needs 1HP to produce a certain amount of flow.

Guess which one is the diesel, and which one is the gasser in that example? The smaller, lighter motor that produces 1HP at 3600RPM it the gasser. The heavier, SLOWER one that produces 1HP at 1800RPM is the PSD.

Both do the same job. Both put 1HP into the fan, blowing the SAME AMOUNT OF AIR. And, OF COURSE you have to gear them differently.

I don't like using HP as a comparison, but it does make sense when comparing totally different engine technologies. 310HP is 310HP no matter how you cut it.

What was the 7.3 rated at? 250HP? If you compare my 2-valve V10 at 310HP, and the 7.3 putting out only 250, if you gear the V10 correctly, you WILL put more torque-to-the-ground at certain points in it's power curve. Add to that that it can rev higher, keeping a lower gear at certain speeds than the 7.3, and it's easy to see that it can easily put down more torque-to-the-ground than the 7.3

Think about the little "peanut" starters. They are gear-reduction units, allowing the "little" motor to rev higher, producing MORE torque overall than their bigger, slower-spinning older cousins, the direct-drive starters.

The gearing argument holds no water.

 

I think they are just bent of shape because in SRW form, the V10 can tow as much as a PSD, end of story.

I just specified what gearing and type of truck so they could look it for them selves. Here's the link for MY 2010:
2010 Ford Super Duty | View Towing Specifications | FordVehicles.com

 

In ANY form the V10 can tow as much as the PSD.

 

I will agree with you that torque is important, but torque to the rear wheels, not the crankshaft, is what is important. Take this for example. A 6.4 with a 4.10 gear and 6 speed manual against a 6.8 with a 4.10 and 6 speed manual. The manual has a 3.30 1st gear, so a 13.53 final drive ratio. 2nd has a 2.1 ratio for an 8.61 final drive ratio.

By the time they reach 3,000 rpm both will have a rear wheel rpm of 222. (3,000/13.53=222). At that point they are doing the exact same speed(but not at the same point on the road since the 6.4 pulled out faster) but the 6.4 is pulling the load easier than the v10. At 3,000 rpm the 6.4 is making 350 hp and the v10 is making 261 hp. Rear wheel tq is 350x5252/3,000 rpm=8,280 for the 6.4 and 261x5252/3,000=6,175 for the v10.

Now, the 6.4 has pulled as far as it can go and has to shift to 2nd while the v10 can pull another 2-3k rpm easily. The 6.4 shifts to 2nd and pulls all the way to 3,000 rpm again and the v10 has pulled to 5,000 rpm in 1st. In 2nd at 3,000 rpm the 6.4 has a rear wheel rpm of 3,000/8.61=348 rpm. The v10 is at 5,000 rpm in 1st and has a rear wheel rpm of 5,000/13.53=369 rpm. The v10 is now going faster in 1st than the 6.4 can go in 2nd.

Rear wheel torque at this point is 350x5252/348=5,282 for the 6.4 and 362x5252/369=5,152 for the v10. The 6.4 is putting a little more tq to the ground, but the v10 is closing the gap and is going faster(though still behind in the race). Once the 6.4 has to hit 3rd gear because it has ran out of rpms, the v10 is still going to be in 2nd gear, gaining speed and actually putting more tq to the ground as it passes the 6.4. Funny thing is, that is exactly what happened in the magazine test that someone posted back on about page 5......

 

You keep telling yourself that.

 

I, for one, would LOVE to ditch my 3.73 LS put a 4.30 rear-end in my 6.0 CC. I'd lose a mpg or 2 on the highway empty, but I'd gain it back towing and in the city. I can already tow my trailer up a normal hill at 70 mph without downshifting. With 4.30's I could tow it up a steeper hill and keep the same gear. A buddy of mine has that set up and he can out tow me all day long and averages about the same mpg.

On a different note, it makes no difference to me what a V10 can tow in SRW, DRW, Econoline, Motorhome, or running a ceiling fan. It's a fine engine, but I still don't want one.

 

Great example! The PSD got to the top of the hill faster during the test becuase it was a short hill. Your example is what would have happend if the hill was longer.

 

Man, i don't understand the arguement here.. every V10 i have ever come across whether it was on the street unloaded trying to race me, pulling heavy, or on the drag strip didn't do anything impressive nor has one been able to out run me yet.. So whats supposed to be so cool about the V10's? they don't last long, all their power is in the higher RPM band so taking off from a stop grossing 20k must really suck, and they are slow... pointless engine. V10s should be in cars where high RPM has a purpose, not a truck that weighs 8000 lbs.

What is the torque like on a decently modded V10 anyways? i ask b/c i don't know. decently modded means spending less than around $2200...

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...10-vs-psd.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ith-video.html