ha ha ha, you know they dont get more than the max torque in a lower gear. 457 is the max torque your truck makes. you sure can read numbers but only the ones that make a v10 look good. thats only one number by the way. and it doesnt mean anything when it comes to towing.

 

[quote=Krewat;8719091]

Using the 4R100 tranny, it was easy to see the v10 putting down more torque-to-the-ground at certain speeds (like 60MPH) because it could hold a lower gear for longer because of it's higher RPM range.

[quote]

so thats not a v10 your comparing to the psd but a trans to a psd. yeah if your going 60 in 2nd gear than yeah your putting more power down but how long is that motor gunna last at red line? so your gunna pull across country in a lower gear the entire way? doesnt make a lick of sense. its not about what can pull more for 5 feet. its about was is most efficant and affective at pulling a load in everyday life.

 

Let it go, it's just an internet truck forum...

 

Far longer at 5,000 RPMs than your 7.3 would!

There are many examples of modular engines lasting well over 200,000 miles even when worked hard.

My 5.4L F150 did an amazing job with 10,000 lbs of enclosed trailer. I didn't upgrade because I thought the engine wouldn't last. I upgraded because I had my doubts on how long the tranny might last under that stress, as well as the fact that I wanted more power. The V10 would have suited my needs just fine.

Believe me, after towing with the 6.4 I can completely understand why people love their turbodiesels for towing. What I can't understand is how people with diesels insist that theirs is the ONLY way of getting the job done.

Take a physics class and then come back and say that. Better yet, do some research! Find me just ONE reputable source that defines torque and horsepower in the same manner you did.

I've probably said it a hundred times in this thread, apparently I'll have to say it again. Torque can be multiplied and divided through gearing. Horsepower can't. I can double something's torque output by running it through a reduction gear; horsepower will stay the same.

Torque doesn't "step in" and help something up a hill, it's always present whenever your transmission is in drive. There is no one without the other in a vehicle's driveline.

 

About as long as your PSD will pulling the same load.
Redline in second gear is at 74 MPH, 60 is easy on it.

I have run second at 70-74 in a head wind towing a tall load for as long as 1/2 hour, its never blown up like you PSD guys think it will.



Yep. Towing a really heavy load, I'll run it up to about 65 and set the CC with the shifter locked in second.

 

Yep, we don't even know these people. Passes the time though and interesting at times.

 

My old college ag mechanics book says that. Torque is the amount of force or power around a pivot point. In an engine the pivot point is the crankshaft. Diesel engines make more torque because of the compression ratio compared to a gas engine. The higher the compression the more power needed and expelled on the different strokes. You gas engine guys should know about high torque. Just try putting out a high torque on your spark plugs and count your threads! So i guess torque does mean power!

 

Diesel engines make huge torque numbers at low rpms because they have VERY long strokes and higher compression. Think of the old 300 4.9L Inline 6's. torque peak was lower than comparable V8's and was WAY flatter due to a very long stroke. Red line was lower than a comparable size v8 also.

Think of engine torque this way: Imagine trying to remove railroad spikes (10K load) with a hammer. (small v8 gas engine) Not gonna happen very easily. Now, imagine trying that with a 1in diameter steel pry bar 5 feet long. (Big gas engine) Yeah, now it's getting easier. Now add more. move up to a 2 in diameter pry bar 7 feet long. (Diesel engine).

ok, you get the point right? Now think about this. small v8 weighs less than big gas engine. Big gas engine weighs less than the diesel. Which is easier to move around? a hammer, a 5ft, 1in diameter bar, or a 7ft 2in diameter bar? which one can you move faster on your own?

In this example, you are the horsepower.

You're ability to move the tool faster from spike to spike is horsepower, how efficient you are at removing the spikes is torque. Which tool are you more efficient with? (more HP, : the hammer : or more torque : the 7ft bar : ) That all depends on the application. ( how big the spikes are, maybe? 10 penny nails, or massive 9in spikes)

Also, which one will probably last longer with less damage over time? the hammer will probably break on very large spikes, the 5ft bar may bend on the largest spikes. but the 7ft bar is probably useless on nails, and way to much effort to move ( operating cost) from one to another for smaller spikes, so it just sits and rusts.

 

Fishin76 you are right. All of my trucks used for heavy towing are all diesels. The way i look at it is yeah the bar might be heavier and take 10% more power to carry between the spikes but will require 20% less power pulling them so i gain an increase work productivity of 10%.

 

Crazy001, I have taken physics, done research, and know what I am talking about. Here is a basic article that is one of many sources that back up my statements. HowStuffWorks "For towing, what's more important, horsepower or torque?" Fishin76 & Mountaineer your arguments are right on.

 

There is a problem with this theory. When you start adding gear reduction units, you add parasitic losses that DO lower horsepower output. Granted, it may be small, but these trucks already experience 15% or more losses to the rear tires from gear reduction units (trans and t-case and rear end). How much more reduction can you add before your giving up 30% HP to get 50% more torque?

 

I know you are on the diesel side, but I have to disagree with you here. You can never make more hp at the wheels than you do at the crank, no matter what gear you have. You can make more torque at the wheels than you do at the crank though. Say I have a v10 and I am cruising at 3,250 rpm in 3rd gear with a 4.10 and then with a 3.73. 1.31 tranny ratio and 4.10 rear for 5.37 final drive ratio. 1.31 tranny ratio and 3.73 gear for a 4.89 final drive ratio. We know the v10 makes 457 tq at 3,250, so that means it makes 283 hp at that rpm.

3,250 rpm/5.37 final drive ratio=605 wheel rpm. 283 hp x 5252/605 rpm=2,457 rear wheel torque.

Now say we put a 3.73 in it and still cruise at 3,250 rpm. It is still going to be making 283 hp but the wheel rpm is going to be 3,250/4.89=664 wheel rpm. 283 hp x 5252/664=2,238 rear wheel torque. So the same engine, in the same gear, at the same rpm, but a lot different rear wheel torque.

We know the 6.4 makes 350 hp at 3,000 rpm, so that means it is making 612 tq. If it has a 4.10 rear end and is in 3rd gear it has a final drive ratio of 5.37 and wheel rpm of 559.

350 hp x 5252/559=3,288 rear wheel torque. Cruising at the the same rpm the v10 is no match for the diesel, but what the v10 guys argue is the following.....

At that rpm, the diesel can't downshift and the v10 can. So say the v10 downshifts to 2nd gear and is turning 4,500 rpm (362 hp). That gives it a final drive of 8.61 (2.15 tranny and 4.10 rear end) and a wheel rpm of 522(now doing almost the same speed as the diesel in 3rd gear).

362 hp x 5252/522=3,642 rear wheel torque. It is now making more rear wheel torque than the diesel even though it is not even close in torque at the crank. I prefer the diesel because it can cruise at half the rpms and requires less downshifting, but the v10 will do a good job if you don't mind turning twice the rpms.

 

Very good example!!!!! Reps sent!!!

 

Thanks for the reps. Reps sent back too. What the v10 guys mean by gear reduction unit isn't an actual "unit", they just mean downshift. Instead of making the pull in 3rd gear with a final drive ratio of 5.37, downshift to 2nd with a 8.61 final drive ratio. My numbers are all assuming a 6 speed manual with 4.10 gearing.

 

Hes not talking about anything that adds more parastic loss.