It was a very impressive test and thinks to all who participated. Personally I wonder why the V10 truck's tach never got much above 2,000 rpm's during much of the test, but I wasn't there and I likely couldn't have done any better. Neat test no matter what the results.

 

Heavy load + very steep incline + locked up converter in 1st below that engine's powerpeak/powerband = crappy pulling experience. That same truck with a 5R110w would have been much quicker up that hill due to the better gear spacing and lower 1st gear ratio that would have allowed the engine to rev to where it makes it's power and get that load rolling. Even a tune that prevented torque converter lockup in 1st would have been much improved.
JL

 

"Your dad drives a chevy?"- Now, that was uncalled for. You can tell a guy that he is ignorant or doesn't know his stuff, but don't accuse him of driving a chevy. As I said before this was a nice test, but I think most 7.3L's would do better than the one in your test.

Original Post

Not our truck and trailer, but an example of what we pull (dad does for a living)

 

Exactly. The TC was locking at 3K RPM and killing the power curve. Mike at 5 Star already gave me a new tune to keep the TC unlocked longer. I haven't got to try it yet. Probably if I had 4.30 or 4.56 instead of 3.73 it would have not been an issue with the TC locking.

 

i can go an hr out of my way. no problem there. just what trailer do u want to pull. got a gooseneck ball in your bed?

 

What the V10 guys are not telling us is that the 7.3 had 700,000 miles on it....

 

They said the mileage. It was 240,000 IIRC.

 

I think the tranny had quite a bit to do with that one too. It pulled to the redline in 1st and was pulling strong in 2nd, but then the driver(not naming any names cough cough) decided to let completely off the throttle for some reason. It shifted to 3rd and then wouldn't downshift. They made the rest of the climb at 2k rpm. Had he not let off the throttle in 2nd it might have gotten the rpms up high enough that when it shifted to 3rd it wasn't turning 2k rpm and struggling.....

 

A diesel "struggling" at 2K rpm?

Of course I realize gearing has something to do with it

 

I didn't let off the throttle before the shift. It was around 00:57 when it shifted to 3rd. Mike was videotaping and narrating, and when it shifted he thought I backed off. Then did you notice me stating that I couldn't get it to downshift again? I had the pedal on the floor and it wasn't cooperating! Reminds me of the experience we had with Mike's truck with the torque converter locking...I wonder if that's what happened here.

I was messing with the tranny after the hill leveled off some. His shift linkage was almost as sloppy as Mike's was for the test so it took some jiggling to find 2nd gear again! We may have gained another few MPH had I left it in drive and let it pull, but it wouldn't have been a huge difference. Remember we were going to do this a few more times, so I thought we could get one good uninterrupted pull in. Ironic how the engine that can "last forever" is the one we had to limp home.

Had we been able to do more runs we would have found out more. IIRC the truck had around 220,000 miles at the time of the test. Freshly rebuilt tranny, but with EGTs coming close to 1300 I was getting pretty nervous!

On the way back Andrew reached over and turned his chip up so we get back a little faster. That chip really woke things up, it had a noticeable increase in power. I wish we were able to run it with the juice turned up!

Johnny Langton's correct as to why we couldn't get the V10 to rev before the hill leveled off a bit. With the deep first gear of the 5R110 it would have been a completely different experience.

 

Both times I watched it I was at work, so I had the volume turned down on it. I just heard someone say they were easing up on it and that it wouldn't downshift. My Bronco has a brand new e4od in it and it does the same thing. I can be going up a hill at 45 mph in 3rd gear (in drive) and it will slow down to 10 mph and will not downshift no matter what. I can pull it down by the lever, have the pedal to the floor, etc, and it does nothing. Other times it shifts fine. That's one of the reasons it will be the last auto I ever own.

If you are going to use a v10 with a 5r100 then it would only be fair to run a 7.3 with a manual so they both have decent gearing off the line. Put a 5r100 behind a 7.3 and it will do a lot better off the line than one with a 4r100. It's not the engines fault it has a crappy tranny hooked to it. I'm just in agreement with the other 7.3 guys in that something had to be wrong with that one somewhere for it to suck that badly. Plenty of us out there pull trailers that big, on hills as steep or more than that one, and don't struggle to reach 25. I don't doubt your test or think you were sandbagging it or anything like that, I just think something was wrong with it.


2k rpm is the beginning of the 7.3's powerband. No different than the v10 struggling because it couldn't get past 3k rpm (beginning if its powerband).

 

im all for the 7.3 but i dont think that would make it fair. the fact that the trucks are stock keeps it fair. changing the tranny is kinda like cheating to me. well, at least for the test they were doing. but, i also see it as were comparing motors so you could go with a different tranny. i understand that point too. depends on how you look at it but i see it as how ford built the truck is how it should be overall tested. i think he was having problems with the tranny and if you tested a different truck you would see a different result, maybe better than the v10 or 6.0 or maybe still a little worse but deffintely not 26 mph. only way to find out is to try it. im gunna see if i can find a v10 guy here in town that is willing to try the climb up to cloudcroft and see how that turns out. ive seen a couple on base i just need to flag them down. ill throw the old cat backhoe on the gooseneck and give it a shot. the road isnt quit as steep as the hill you were on but there is a little more weight involved on this trailer. the cat is 13,500 on its own.

 

To me this whole debate is v10 vs psd, which is engine alone. I want to know how they do against each other with equal gearing, trannys, etc, so it gives a fair engine only comparison. That's my view though. Others may see it differently. I just don't go for the argument of give the v10 4.30's and an extra gear and say it's a better engine because it beat a diesel with a 3.73 and a 4 speed.

I can go for a stock vs stock test too. But comparing trucks from the same generation. At the time the 7.3 was being made both it and the v10 came with the 4r100, so a 7.3 with 4r100 vs a v10 with a 4r100 is fair. We could just as easily have a 5.4 vs v10 debate and say the 5.4 is a better towing engine because a 2010 f150 will outpull a 1999 v10 4r100. I think quite a few v10 guys would be saying it's not a fair test because the f150 is lighter, has better gearing off the line, more gears, etc.

 

haha...we did that one too! THIS TIME we had Matt's '07 F150 with the 4R75E didn't have an easy time, but it did make it up the hill!

And the 2ND TIME we did this we had my dad's 2010 4.6L F150 out there. The high revving 4.6L engine did an amazing job with the new 6-speed transmission. I think it matched Mike's V10 up the hill, but we didn't take video and I can't remember well enough.

On this type of test a really short first gear followed by a second gear that's close to the first is a HUGE advantage.

 

I'd say that a 2v V-10 with an r4100 against an idi 7.3 would be fair. A 7.3 turbo'd and a 3.73 against a 2v V-10 with a 4.10 and the same tranny's would be close as those gears were "standard". It's an interesting argument that the "lowly" V-10 is being compared to an idi 7.3, a turbo'd 7.3, a 6 leaker AND a 6.4 sootbagger!!! You diesel dogs are hard up for an argument that's all I've got to say.

Pap