No more tuner
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,177
Likes: 40
From: Newport, WA
Stewart, this is the exact same way i feel, i could not have said it any better myself. And myself, like u, will acknowledge that there are other tuners out there and recommend them too, You have to pick the flavor you think u will like and go with it.
And i disagree with one thing.........
MeatLovers Pizza is best!!!!!
And i disagree with one thing.........
MeatLovers Pizza is best!!!!!
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Likes: 17
From: Melbourne, Ky
Just kidding guys.
Meat lovers is the best though,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga, TN
Sean,
Thank you for asking this. I was hoping someone would. I think you have helped me prove my point.
At what temps do you want to know the timing? -36*C or 0*C or 95*C. Under what condition do you want to know your timing: ICP pressures, RPM, Air temp, what is the engine compression, what CPS, what IDM, what injector, what alititude and how much engine load....
There are many varibles to take into account when factoring timing. This is why you can only meassure this in the cylinder to get the TRUE timing in EACH truck. ALL of the variables MUST be taken into account.
All of the timing data I acquired was from a running truck with high speed test equipment. The 26* of timing noted was in the 80E at WOT (around 2500 rpm's.) Oil in the pan was at 80*F.
Jody
Thank you for asking this. I was hoping someone would. I think you have helped me prove my point.
At what temps do you want to know the timing? -36*C or 0*C or 95*C. Under what condition do you want to know your timing: ICP pressures, RPM, Air temp, what is the engine compression, what CPS, what IDM, what injector, what alititude and how much engine load....
There are many varibles to take into account when factoring timing. This is why you can only meassure this in the cylinder to get the TRUE timing in EACH truck. ALL of the variables MUST be taken into account.
All of the timing data I acquired was from a running truck with high speed test equipment. The 26* of timing noted was in the 80E at WOT (around 2500 rpm's.) Oil in the pan was at 80*F.
Jody
So 26* BTDC is the answer (for this particular truck). That seems like a very reasonable number.
I understand there are many variables. This causes a somewhat wide range of timing numbers depending on load, temp, etc, etc, etc. Keep in mind I am fairly new to diesels. The same basic principles should still hold true. Too much timing and it goes boom. This is especially true for a turbo charged high compression engine (i.e. turbo diesel). If this engine was under significant load and saw 45* BTDC (in any variable condition), I'm sure it wouldn't last very long. By average V8, I mean no advanced modifications for strength or anything built specifically to take serious abuse. Like I said, I am fairly new to diesel engines. Please correct me if 45* of timing is the norm.
Don't get me wrong. I am not attacking Jody at DP or anything of the sort. I just like to know how stuff works. I don't need any super secret patented details or anything.
I wouldn't think the timing should be anywhere near 45* BTDC if the engine is under enough load to build boost. This includes all variable ranges besides engine load and timing.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
Someone mentioned blind faith in Jody. While I wouldn't necessarily classify it as blind faith, it is faith none-the-less. And it's no more so than found in the average customer for any of the other aforementioned tuners.
When Jody live tuned me, I told him what I wanted, and I have FAITH and TRUST in him to tune the way I asked. Do I have the equipment or knowledge to check to see if he's done that? Nope. But I trust him, so I believe he's done the tunes to my desires. That's not blind faith, because I know I'm pushing my truck. But it is trust. Trust Jody has earned.
Why should any of us who trust in our tuners be faulted for that?
I had FAITH in the fact that my PMR/Meth tunes were the safest I could run on the market. I was wrong.
Pizza is great, but if pizza hut is telling you they use real cheese, but sticking out of the dumpster on the way out you see a box of procced cheese spread are you going to go back and ask a few questions, or just assume the Izzie's Pizza from down the street planted it there?
Once the heads came off I started getting worried, then the cracked pistons, then the cracked block, then the cracked heads... All in 30k...
Did not have any of those issues with the old motor, running the same mods, with up to 70% meth in testing... All on PMR's.
The long list of DP tuned trucks popping at 400-450hp also opened my eyes, then looking at the other tuners pushing 550-600-700hp on stock bottom ends without the issues others were running?
Look at the graphs, look at the data... and add it up.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 5
From: Slatington, PA
This is the kind of information I've been looking for.
Would I be right in thinking that a lot of the arguing about the issues with DP is centered around timing?
Would I be right in thinking that a lot of the arguing about the issues with DP is centered around timing?
Thanks again for the info.
So 26* BTDC is the answer (for this particular truck). That seems like a very reasonable number.
I understand there are many variables. This causes a somewhat wide range of timing numbers depending on load, temp, etc, etc, etc. Keep in mind I am fairly new to diesels. The same basic principles should still hold true. Too much timing and it goes boom. This is especially true for a turbo charged high compression engine (i.e. turbo diesel). If this engine was under significant load and saw 45* BTDC (in any variable condition), I'm sure it wouldn't last very long. By average V8, I mean no advanced modifications for strength or anything built specifically to take serious abuse. Like I said, I am fairly new to diesel engines. Please correct me if 45* of timing is the norm.
Don't get me wrong. I am not attacking Jody at DP or anything of the sort. I just like to know how stuff works. I don't need any super secret patented details or anything.
I wouldn't think the timing should be anywhere near 45* BTDC if the engine is under enough load to build boost. This includes all variable ranges besides engine load and timing.
So 26* BTDC is the answer (for this particular truck). That seems like a very reasonable number.
I understand there are many variables. This causes a somewhat wide range of timing numbers depending on load, temp, etc, etc, etc. Keep in mind I am fairly new to diesels. The same basic principles should still hold true. Too much timing and it goes boom. This is especially true for a turbo charged high compression engine (i.e. turbo diesel). If this engine was under significant load and saw 45* BTDC (in any variable condition), I'm sure it wouldn't last very long. By average V8, I mean no advanced modifications for strength or anything built specifically to take serious abuse. Like I said, I am fairly new to diesel engines. Please correct me if 45* of timing is the norm.
Don't get me wrong. I am not attacking Jody at DP or anything of the sort. I just like to know how stuff works. I don't need any super secret patented details or anything.
I wouldn't think the timing should be anywhere near 45* BTDC if the engine is under enough load to build boost. This includes all variable ranges besides engine load and timing.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
Sure, What one do you want?
I have a Swamps chip, an Elite chip and a Swamps chip with PMT Split tuning on it? I am not quite sure what you want to see with data logging, but if you want to, knock yourself out!!!
Here is something else to look at. Look at these two pictures and tell me what one you think would be better for the truck... Then I will tell you whos tunes are on each one...
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
I think the bottom image represents "going easier" on the injectors, however the top might be part of the conditions part of creating a sharper, cleaner burn.
This ends up being personal preference / intent of the chip itself.
On a side note, remember that a weak point on these engines is the time it takes to deliver the fuel, creating prolonged stress on the internals during ignition....
Whats better: quick powerful injection; or longer less powerful injection?
Unless you happen to work at ford R&D with an unlimited budget, you might never know.
This ends up being personal preference / intent of the chip itself.
On a side note, remember that a weak point on these engines is the time it takes to deliver the fuel, creating prolonged stress on the internals during ignition....
Whats better: quick powerful injection; or longer less powerful injection?
Unless you happen to work at ford R&D with an unlimited budget, you might never know.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,530
Likes: 7
From: Montana
Hell Just send me your Swamps chip, so i can send it off to Bill and have him look at it, and give us some numbers. Not your Elite Chip, not your Swamps with Splits tuning, your SWAMPS chip like i asked.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
I was just trying to offer everything I could to you... If you have something to say then say it...
I will send both the Elite and Swamps chips to Bill with in the next few weeks, and pay to have both checked out... Now you send yours as well, just so we are all working on the same court.
I'll still pay for yours and Gregs... I am sure you guys dont feel like you have anything to hide do you?
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,767
Likes: 1
For comparison, you might just spend a few bills on a blank TS chip and pick Matt, TW or PHP for chits and grins...I will probably be picking up an extra chip soon cause I didn't realize the restrictions of receiving others tunes when I bought my burner. Maybe we can work something out with you sending MY blank chip to get burned for your mods? You will have to pick up the $40 or so for the rotary **** if you don't already have one
I offer this not because I doubt your tunes, but because I think it would be cool to see what you think. (i.e. free experiment
) JUST KIDDING ON THE LAST
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,530
Likes: 7
From: Montana
I was just trying to offer everything I could to you... If you have something to say then say it...
I will send both the Elite and Swamps chips to Bill with in the next few weeks, and pay to have both checked out... Now you send yours as well, just so we are all working on the same court.
I'll still pay for yours and Gregs... I am sure you guys dont feel like you have anything to hide do you?
I will send both the Elite and Swamps chips to Bill with in the next few weeks, and pay to have both checked out... Now you send yours as well, just so we are all working on the same court.
I'll still pay for yours and Gregs... I am sure you guys dont feel like you have anything to hide do you?