No more tuner
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Lets see what kind of conclusion is drawn if someone actually dissect ALL the data in the tune, and actually finds the correct figures that depict timing advance under normal driving conditions.
I bet internet beer that things get quieter now that the path to answers is clear, and a lot of work lays ahead.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
I started eating McDonalds 2 weeks ago, and how I gained 50lbs, lost my vision, and got divorced, had an accident and got my leg amputated, then rolled off the edge of the earth in my wheelchair. I'm never eating there again, and nobody else should. They should have told me this would have happened, something must be wrong with their ingredients.
Edit: adding a comment
After seeing that picture, I live 1.5 hours from a mickey d's, and considering firing up the rig and making a trip before the wife gets home from work....hmmmm
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga, TN
I believe this man is going in the right direction. He actually understands how tuning works.
In the end, like everything else, it's how the truck is driven. Maybe DP adds more power before the engine is warmed up? Would this be DP's fault, or yours for honking on her when the temp guage is right in front of you?
In the end, like everything else, it's how the truck is driven. Maybe DP adds more power before the engine is warmed up? Would this be DP's fault, or yours for honking on her when the temp guage is right in front of you?
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Chattanooga, TN
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Because racetruck
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 104
From: Monterey Bay, CA
NHRDA# 5078 - Last year I did about 20 runs down the 1/4 mile and about 10 down the 1/8th. On top of that I have done about 10 or so dyno pulls. Granted, I am not running "big" power (309/677) or fast times (15.81)
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
Here we go again...
None of you get the point... If tuner A can get the same job done at 38* of timing at lower ICP and PW, but tuner B needs 47* of timing at a higher ICP and PW...
Why does Jody call for 4.5ms of PW at 3000 RPM when it takes less then 3.5 to COMPLETLY empty a AD injector...
Then you all start with the personal attacks again...
I do not blame jody for my motor blowing up. I chose to run his tuning because no one had this data, no one chose to share this info. Now some of you are at least asking your self the questions that should be asked, rather then just being sheep following the lambs to slaughter.
The problem with that thinking is... as you walk in the door at Mcd there is a little poster on the wall that tells you everything that is in them, all the cal's, fat and saturated fat...
Example...
In a Wendys double Baconater, large fry and large diet soda...
1510 cal
85 grams fat
32 grams saturated fat
2780 grams of sodium...
Now if you ate that everyday and died at 35 due to a heart attack, would you blame Wendys or yourself for doing it?
But now armed with this info, I bet a few of you will think twice about the double baconater...
None of you get the point... If tuner A can get the same job done at 38* of timing at lower ICP and PW, but tuner B needs 47* of timing at a higher ICP and PW...
Why does Jody call for 4.5ms of PW at 3000 RPM when it takes less then 3.5 to COMPLETLY empty a AD injector...
Then you all start with the personal attacks again...
I do not blame jody for my motor blowing up. I chose to run his tuning because no one had this data, no one chose to share this info. Now some of you are at least asking your self the questions that should be asked, rather then just being sheep following the lambs to slaughter.
I started eating McDonalds 2 weeks ago, and how I gained 50lbs, lost my vision, and got divorced, had an accident and got my leg amputated, then rolled off the edge of the earth in my wheelchair. I'm never eating there again, and nobody else should. They should have told me this would have happened, something must be wrong with their ingredients.
Example...
In a Wendys double Baconater, large fry and large diet soda...
1510 cal
85 grams fat
32 grams saturated fat
2780 grams of sodium...
Now if you ate that everyday and died at 35 due to a heart attack, would you blame Wendys or yourself for doing it?
But now armed with this info, I bet a few of you will think twice about the double baconater...
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
This is what I was trying to get at. I used the term total timing for this. As in the timing after all the variables are taken into account. Base timing with an advance or retard in timing is the total timing at a given point. I suppose I should have just asked if the 42/45* number on the graph was total timing or what the ecu added to get to the correct timing number. If it's total timing under a significant load, that's bad. If it was just adding that much timing to arrive at say 28* or something, that is perfectly acceptable.
I don't know how long it takes an injector to complete an injection when it's -30 outside, but maybe 45deg advance is not out of the question if it takes that long to get things moving.
These injectors are not piezoelectric where you tell it something and it's already doing it by the time you finish thinking it.
This is where the extra data comes in and changes the values on the table.
I know only so much about this, and some of you know quite a bit, but this argument would be so much better argued by someone who actually knows all this stuff inside out, like Jody, who already took the time to stop in.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
... Just refuse to look at the fact that every other tuner does the samething, if not more for HP... Without the high timing numbers...
You also dont remember that jody comes in here and says "none of his tunes have higher then 22* of timing"... Yet they clearly do...
You pick and chose the information to fit what you want to hear... Look at ALL the information you have.
You also dont remember that jody comes in here and says "none of his tunes have higher then 22* of timing"... Yet they clearly do...
You pick and chose the information to fit what you want to hear... Look at ALL the information you have.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Here we go again...
None of you get the point... If tuner A can get the same job done at 38* of timing at lower ICP and PW, but tuner B needs 47* of timing at a higher ICP and PW...
You're saying that injector with less push, less open time, and less timing is capable of more power than the one with more ICP and PW, which should be impossible.
Why does Jody call for 4.5ms of PW at 3000 RPM when it takes less then 3.5 to COMPLETLY empty a AD injector...
At that point in the table, maybe it is either to take into account less than optimum operating conditions, or that is simply not the final value.
Then you all start with the personal attacks again...
I do not blame jody for my motor blowing up. I chose to run his tuning because no one had this data, no one chose to share this info. Now some of you are at least asking your self the questions that should be asked, rather then just being sheep following the lambs to slaughter.
The problem with that thinking is... as you walk in the door at Mcd there is a little poster on the wall that tells you everything that is in them, all the cal's, fat and saturated fat...
Example...
In a Wendys double Baconater, large fry and large diet soda...
1510 cal
85 grams fat
32 grams saturated fat
2780 grams of sodium...
Now if you ate that everyday and died at 35 due to a heart attack, would you blame Wendys or yourself for doing it?
But now armed with this info, I bet a few of you will think twice about the double baconater...
None of you get the point... If tuner A can get the same job done at 38* of timing at lower ICP and PW, but tuner B needs 47* of timing at a higher ICP and PW...
You're saying that injector with less push, less open time, and less timing is capable of more power than the one with more ICP and PW, which should be impossible.
Why does Jody call for 4.5ms of PW at 3000 RPM when it takes less then 3.5 to COMPLETLY empty a AD injector...
At that point in the table, maybe it is either to take into account less than optimum operating conditions, or that is simply not the final value.
Then you all start with the personal attacks again...
I do not blame jody for my motor blowing up. I chose to run his tuning because no one had this data, no one chose to share this info. Now some of you are at least asking your self the questions that should be asked, rather then just being sheep following the lambs to slaughter.
The problem with that thinking is... as you walk in the door at Mcd there is a little poster on the wall that tells you everything that is in them, all the cal's, fat and saturated fat...
Example...
In a Wendys double Baconater, large fry and large diet soda...
1510 cal
85 grams fat
32 grams saturated fat
2780 grams of sodium...
Now if you ate that everyday and died at 35 due to a heart attack, would you blame Wendys or yourself for doing it?
But now armed with this info, I bet a few of you will think twice about the double baconater...
Yes, you know what you're eating, you know it tastes awesome and aint the best for you. Just like chipping youre truck.
If I eat this spicy baconator, and get an ulcer from all the peppers and spice, should I say that this burger is not as good as others because it gave me an ulcer, AND made me fat, whereas the others just made me fat ?