Before this happens;

can we at least all agree that those graphs prove nothing, and that there is currently no proof whatsoever that his failure was tuner related?

It's gotta get dealt with sometime, otherwise this will resurface in a different thread.

 

I need to look at my ScanGauge. There is a timing function in there somewhere -- not sure what it would tell me though. I know a few guys have DP and the ScanGauge, so maybe we could do some comparison. Just an idea...

 

I don't see any way to get this settled on here the way it is going now. Unless you think we could get all the top tuners on here together and hash this out? Lots of people are intrested in this thread, but we are just not seeing any facts to back up clams.

 

I may be wrong, but hasn't Joe posted pictures, as others have, that show the spray pattern all the way to the edge of the piston, instead of towards the cup? How is that accomplished besides timing?

I can't beleive how many of you are attacking each other with absolutely no information of your own. If you have information to prove Joe wrong about what he is saying, by all means provide it so we can all learn. Hopefully Jody isn't running the timing that is being shown, and that the info he gave earlier in this thread is accurate; then this "concern" about too much advanced timing needs to be dropped.

I'm one that leans towards seeing facts; be it graphs, tables or pictures. I have a hard time believing a lot of what people are SAYING, if it's true show some facts to back up the claim.

These one line quips about who's motors are running or not running and that one blew but had more miles are pathetic. Come up with something new and useful to the discussion.

 

I don't think getting all the big name tuners to reply will do anything. Tuner A will say "I set my tunes up this way because of xxx reason" and tuner B will say "well I do it this way because of xxx reason" and tuner C will say "neither of you are accounting for y,z,w,p, or f" and it will just turn into a big mess. Long story short- there are several reputable tuners out there who can all do a great job of tuning a 7.3. Do some research and pick one, or if you are so inclined and funded buy several different tuners and run them all to see which one works best for you.

 

Not necessarily, Rick. If it can be worked out that the tables Joe posted are either a) real, but there are other pieces of the puzzle that modify the number on the table, b) they are flat out wrong or c) they are right and there is something to it. I don't see any other option, but SOMEONE intimate to tuning needs to spill the beans. I was **this** close to buying Bill's self tuning package a while back, and I may still. I am VERY interesting in my own tuning -- I just don't have the time.

If someone sees another option that I missed, please bring it up. We have a chance to settle this one way or the other. I for one would like to. I would think everyone would. And it's not an emotional thing -- just fact-finding. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm sure Jody has a TON of info and data he could post, and not give away any secrets. My only interest in this is curiosity at this point.

 

I thought in another thread somewhere there were claims of that or talk of that even on stock engines, sooooo.....

As it stands right now, there is insufficient data to disprove or prove this theory.

If someone happens to uncover the WHOLE truth, and I said things here that made me look like an ****, I'll literally print this thread off, and take a picture of me eating the paper so you all have proof of me eating my own words.

 

If I remember right, that graft is not from Joe's tunes. Jody said that graft if from a stock tune and he cuts the timing down from it. If you are questioning Jody accuracy, then this should be another thread.


This is what Jody posted from what I understand.

 

LOL!!!

I remember that other thread -- the examples were "Star pattern, but not nearly as bad", one was on an E-series bus with a van turbo, no IC and I'm sure very different tuning, and the third example brought up something interesting -- timing issues with the stock tuning under certain circumstances (I'm assuming here).

All that said, does anyone *disagree* that Joe has a decent case? It's enough to get my interest. If *I* was running those tunes, ESPECIALLY with larger injectors, I would want to get the bottom of it, and sooner rather than later.

EDIT: Rick --> If that is indeed the case, SHOW US HOW!! Don't just hint around at it. I would like to see the hard facts from the horses mouth, with data to support it.

EDIT2: Here is a link to my post in the thread in question:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post8374090

 

Lots of bone stock engines have those scars, I've personally seen them in 7.3s, 6.0s, and a duramax. Yes, actual injection timing is the only factor in creating those burns. Problem is there's so many variables that effect that, so you can't just say "tuner S creates burn marks", and people on here are not getting that connection.

Yes, it's possible that tuner S is better than tuner T for a particular truck, or vise versa. Not one single person here can argue otherwise, and not one single person in here can say it's TRUE without having run both systematically. In this ENTIRE thread, only one person I saw can make that claim, and unlike 90% of the people in here, he was honest about what he saw and what both tuners brought to the table, and didn't sugercoat it or had an agenda. He also mentioned something I guarantee all of you missed. Consistency.

I'm not going to say consistency is everything, it's not. Just one more piece of the puzzle only very few care enough to put together. All I see are people touting a piece here and a piece there, and a couple touting marketing stratagies as condemning actions, but I've only seen one person (actually 2 people, but not the point) since I've been here actually put forth the effort to try piece the 7.3 puzzle together. I'll give you an internet hi-five if you realize what I'm talking about.

 

For a start - it seems that there is some great technical discussion going on here.
Kudo's to you all for getting so in-depth, and I hope some of you all are able to learn something from this discussion (I know I have!)

Just a couple of reminders for everyone.

1. Remember, this is a discussion of technical merit, not "who likes who", or more to the point "who doesn't like who".
2. Our moderators are getting a large number of reported posts from this thread, and while we most definitely encourage you to use the feature if you feel there is a violation of our guidelines, we ask that you use it only if you feel there is a violation of our guidelines: Ford Truck Enthusiasts - Discussion Forum Guidelines

Thanks again for your understanding, and please feel free to continue the great technical debate

Adrian

 

Nice post, Chris. Reps coming.

EDIT: Thanks, Adrian. It's hard to keep emotions in check sometimes. We appreciate your understanding.

 

Thanks. BTW, is the "you need to rep more people before you can rep this person" rep block the "rep police" you guys talk about?

I can't rep half the people I want to in this thread, lmao.

 

Joe, I know nothing about tuning, but I read the threads of people that know. I guess some people have missed this post.

 

I saw these, Rick. Not quite what I was looking for.

EDIT: I'd like to see WOT runs on both a fully warmed up truck and one that isn't. Say, at or below 100* EOT. The virtual gauge cluster one is VERY cool -- easy to see in crappy YouTube vids what's actually going on.