Why is that?

Say I was the biggest bold face lier in the entire world, I mean bad... Scum of the world...












Does that change the graphs and timing maps I have posted?

 

Still hiding behind a user name I see...


lets try this again...

Good...




Bad...

 

Explain the difference Please and why?

 

Gave a call to the garage this morning, can't do it. Carry on..

 

God I hate my computer. I just finished typing out a long *** post and it ate it.

OK, so I'll compress it and explain it tomorrow. From what I learned working with Tunerpro RT, you can't just compare graphs without knowing all the parameters involved. It's possible the DP graph has negative corrections added as oil temp rises, and what your looking at is the -30* table, which actually makes sense to me. Lower oil temp means higher viscocity which means slower injection event which requires higher timing numbers that rise quickly as RPMs rise. Tony's graph might be a 120* graph that has positive corrections added as oil temp decreases. I don't know, and I have a feeling just about nobody arguing in this thread does either.

In my BIN for my race car, I have a main 3D table like that for fuel. Fine and dandy. On top of that I have 3 2D tables that add or subtract from points on that graph based on RPM and LOAD (Kpa manifold pressure). On top of that I have a temp correction table that adds or subtracts fuel based on manifold inlet air temp. On top of everything I have a "mainscale" correction that adds or subtracts from everything. I'm not going to get into the spark advance tables and AUX tables for when meth is active or running E-85.

In the end, I can have +40 in a cell on the graph, -3 on the high load table, -15 on the mainscale, and be at a temp that is +5. You guys would think I'm running +40, but in reality the engine sees +27. Your argument just became invalid.

I'm not saying it's not possible for there to have been a glitch when porting tables from TS to Tunerpro or something. It happens. I'm also not saying this is how Jody does it, because I don't know. All I DO know is that Jody and Diane seem like good people, and so does Tony W. and PHP and all the rest I never got to talk with yet. I don't go preaching one is better, or one is right. Thats not how tuning goes. You go with the guy who "feels" right and produces the result YOU like. I've met and used more tuners than most people have mods, lol. After all that money flying guys in and all that time spent on a dyno giving myself hearing damage, I've learned one thing:

The guy you most enjoy having dinner with after a tuning day and your ears still ringing, is most likely the guy who will tune your car/truck the best. If the guy just wants to do his job and go home, he will probly not spend the time to get to know you and your driving style and match your tuning to you. That's not a hard-and-fast rule, as plenty of guys who did great tuning don't hang out and a couple who become good friends didn't work out, but all-in-all, you don't stay in this business for 5+ years without doing something right, or at least making it right.

I personally don't think anyone who has only used one or two tuners has the right to say one is better. I've also had the "best" tuner in my industry blow a few engines sometimes, including his own, lol. We have a saying: "If your not breaking parts, your not trying hard enough". Your never going to find the edge without stepping over it a few times.

 

 

Well, if 85% of this site is pro DP-tuner, then I shouldn't even bother...



But there are plenty of reasons other than the blown engine thing to consider when deciding whether or not to run DP tunes.

How many of you pro DP guys compete?

How many have dyno'd your trucks?

How many have ever done either with other tunes than DP?

A buddy of mine had identical mods on his truck, as I had on mine at one point. And I do mean identical. Literally the only difference was his turbo wasn't ceramic coated, mine was. He put 20 feet on me at a pull. He had better tires for that track, but no other advantage. Tires don't equal 20 feet.

Got me thinking...

Then he dyno'd 40 some odd HP more than I did...

Got me looking at things.

Changed half a dozen parts on the motor and my data logs still looked the same.

Until this point, I was still a bona-fide DP lover.

I got a chip loaned to me from vendor X, to try to narrow down the issue that was stealing my power.

Having no other way to compare two chips, I drove down to a lonely backroad, hooked up my laptop, and ran off a quarter mile. Stopped, captured the times, and went back the other direction data logging.

Then I pulled the DP and put in the chip from vendor X. Pointed the truck down the road in the same direction, started at the same point, started the timer on the laptop and ran off another quarter mile. Immediately turned around, drove back to the start point and did it again. Repeated it three or four more times.

Pulled chip X and put the DP in. Let the truck cool until the EOT was the same as the first run I made, and ran another quarter. I'll say this for DP, if you're bracket racing, you'll be good. It's consistent as hell.

Pulled the DP at the other end, replaced it with chip X, and data logged it back to the start line.

Stopped briefly in my "special pullout" on that road, and reviewed the data logs, ET's and Traps. Pulled out my cell phone and bought that chip from vendor X on my drive home. It was without a doubt outperforming the DP chip. And it was doin it with cooler EGT's.

Sittin at idle I noticed another thing. Or rather, I didn't notice it. The "death rattle" in 120R that I used to think sounded cool. But when compared to the sounds I used to listen for when "earing" the timing on my gassers, it started to make me nervous. I couldn't hear anything like it with the new chip. Idled like a stock truck. Just like it should.






I was never worried about blowin my motor with the DP chip, but since that day I've learned quite a few things about these 7.3's and all of it got me thinking...

None of the guys making big power on stock forged rod blocks are runnin DP. Why is that?

The only guys out there makin big power on DP tunes are runnin full built motors. Why is that?

Almost all of the tuners out there are friendly with each other, except one. Why is that?

Only one tuner I know of thinks it's a good idea to tune the truck to 4k ICP. Why is that?

Only one tuner I know of thinks 4.9 MS of PW @ 3k ICP with a stock AD is a good number for an econo tune. When it takes that AD 3.5 MS to empty @ 3k ICP. Why is that?

Several of the tuners out there are gettin good power out of PMR blocks. We aren't hearing about PMR truck after PMR truck with DP tunes over 400. Why is that?

There's nearly a dozen custom 7.3 tuners out there to choose from. When somebody starts a thread asking about their tuning, you don't see people jumping in sayin "No don't do it!" Why is that?

Of those tuners, several have trucks out there tickin off fast E.T.'s here recently, or hangin right there with the Goats and Bowties in the pulling curcuits, but DP doesn't. Why is that?






I'm not saying Jody is a bad tuner with no business tuning the 7.3 so don't jump down my throat. I am saying that something he does needs to be changed. There was a time when I would've loved it if he had examined his tuning, taken some input from some of the big names in the game, and looked for ways to make his tunes just as powerful, and safe, as some of the other guys. I had over 700 bucks in his tuning and hardware. I really don't care now, as I sold it to a buddy. My buddy will never go larger than a stage 1 injector on a 17* though, so I don't think he has anything to worry about. And he doesn't compete, so he'll never know there's more in his set up than he's getting. Nor will he ever have a need to get everything his truck can give.

I will say about Jody, that his tuning was fun to drive, and the truck shifted great.

I will also say, that until recently I had two different chips I used. No one tuner can hit every single nail on the head. But it's disturbing that so many of them hit those nails better than DP.

For Jody's sake, I wish he'd take the criticism to heart, and make his tunes perform as well and as safely as some of the other guys. He is a good dude, and he catches hell for the things he doesn't change.

 

Let's please keep the personal opinions, attacks etc., out of this thread. I am personally tired of posts in this thread being reported. If this persists I will lock and DELETE the thread.

We are all adults here lets try and act like such.

 

Jim,
Lock it if it gets bad, and delete offending posts if need be, but please don't delete the whole thing. There is decent info in here to be plucked out.

 

I believe this man is going in the right direction. He actually understands how tuning works.




In the end, like everything else, it's how the truck is driven. Maybe DP adds more power before the engine is warmed up? Would this be DP's fault, or yours for honking on her when the temp guage is right in front of you?

 

*** Raises hand ***

Dyno'ed 561 with stock forged rods/stock bottom end/DP Tunes..
Ran a 12.88 @ 103 in the 1/4

I know plenty others like Jason Kubis..

Why is it that one of the best known performance shops uses Jody exclusively?

 

If that is the case, then why couldn't that have been explained upteen posts/threads ago?? This isn't the first time this has been brought up, yet NOBODY posted anything like this. I'd like to know more. I guess I need to get back to my plan of self-tuning. I just wish I had more time.

BTW, which "temp gauge" are you referring to? The stock one is next to worthless. I watch my EOT and wait for it get above 150 before I quit driving like grandpa, and 170 before I do any WOT runs....

 

When the thread got locked the first time I PM'd horsepuller and asked him to take another look at the thread. I said sorry so many had reported the posts, but that it was full of good information and that the discussion had remained civil throughout. I asked him to consider reopening it and probably others did too. It would be a shame to have it get locked again, or maybe it needs to; I don't know. So whether you like or dislike Joe and what he says matters not. He has kept it clean and respectable. He's not going to have his mind changed so don't try, same as me.

Now I have nothing new to say and I won't either. But please read these quotes from Jody. The man took the time to come on here and explain that he does not have excess timing in his tunes. So how can anyone still go around saying he does? He even said he removestiming from the stock programming! Or has some people chosen to ignore this?

Joe, posting one graph from a huge constellations of graphs means nothing. That one graph doesn't control things on its own.

 

Never mind, I don't think there is anything I can say to help this.

 

On a 5.0 Mustang for example, the timing is set with the distributor at a specific setting, which is 10 degrees btdc factory. Then a spout connector is plugged in and the computer takes control of the advance curve based on several different parameters. Same as most any computer controlled engine. Since I have dabbled in burning chips and modifying scalars for these cars I have seen the values. Some of the max values for certain parameters would be significantly higher than one would want. But the way the other parameters affect that, the computer would never call for the max values! But if I were to take that one column of values and show it to someone, they'd think that's what the computer was calling for because they don't know that the other parameters would not allow for it. There are even fuel multipliers which add and take away fuel based on engine temp, barometric pressure, air temp, limp mode, etc you get the idea. It's all based off of one large base column!
Could that be the case here, us getting shown one graph? I don't know, I would be way off to speak in that area regarding our trucks. But I know what I think.