Gas vs PSD
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Humble, Texas
To sum up this thread:
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
From: emporium
To sum up this thread:
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
we know all that^ just like to bicker at eachother
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
To sum up this thread:
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
supercharger is way diffrent that a turbo boss. and the problem with gassers and superchargers is the rpms. diesel are low rpms and can take that kinda compression in the cylinders. the supercharger runs off a cam or crank. if the pistons are turning at 6000 rpms then the crank is turn way faster boss. think of it as if you were turning the motor over by hand off the hermonic balancer. a quarter turn on the balance is a full rev of the piston.
RPM = Revolutions Per Minute
A revolution is a complete 360 degree rotation of the crankshaft. If the tach says 6,000 RPMs, that's exactly how fast the crank is spinning.
And I think both of you guys are right.
Diesels are almost always running lean. Something about the diesel cycle makes that okay for a diesel, but NOT okay for a gasser. Which would be why most diesels are unthrottled. They don't need throttle plates, because you can adjust the power by adjusting how much fuel is delivered into the cylinders.
I believe many tuners have the capability of increasing boost, but the majority, at least on the 6.4s, work with the 41 PSI of boost that's available stock. There's more power to be made without increasing boost, but it's not done that way stock for emissions and efficiency purposes.
So yes, you can add power without adding ADDITIONAL boost(yes, Johnny you STILL need the turbo!), but I do know that there are tuners that increase boost pressures.
Everyone happy now?
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
No, he thinks that a diesel tuner makes big power by increasing boost pressure and keeping the air-fuel ratio constant. He's doesn't understand how a diesel can increase power output just by adding fuel alone. Most the recent conversation is related to fueling as a power adder. But he's taken it way off course now.
Edit: Read Crazy's post. It's better than mine and I didn't see it before I posted.
Edit: Read Crazy's post. It's better than mine and I didn't see it before I posted.
"Mifflin Clay"
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,177
Likes: 4
From: Mifflin, PA
To sum up this thread:
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
1. V10 guys hate turbo's.
2. Diesel guys hate spark plugs.
3. Diesel costs more to maintain.
4. V10's consume gas like Bill Clinton consumes hookers.
5. The Germans made a diesel aircraft engine with 2 pistons per cylinder, which proves - nothing!
6. Lots of math has been done - a benchmark of bench racing.
7. Vans have smaller tires than pickups.
8. The 5.4L is....well...a 5.4.
9. Now we're talking about pulling turbo's off - again. Back to square one.
Did I miss anything?
A vote is like a rifle; Its usefulness depends on the character of the user.
Teddy Roosevelt
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
supercharger is way diffrent that a turbo boss. and the problem with gassers and superchargers is the rpms. diesel are low rpms and can take that kinda compression in the cylinders. the supercharger runs off a cam or crank. if the pistons are turning at 6000 rpms then the crank is turn way faster boss. think of it as if you were turning the motor over by hand off the hermonic balancer. a quarter turn on the balance is a full rev of the piston.
Diesel can run high compression and high cylinder pressure because it operates on auto-ignition. Diesels operate at low speed because the burn rate of diesel is slower than gasoline. A belt driven supercharger has a pulley drive ratio that should be sized for the engine. I have a roots blower. It is a positive displacement pump so it will supply proportionally correct air to my engine at all speeds. Turbos work on gasoline engines too and up to any speed the engine can handle.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
I don't know, all this science makes my head hurt and means jack chit!
Fact's are:
1) the magazine article is a bogus comparison (weight difference and length of pull)
2) people are not comparing same vehicles
3) paper means nothing in the real world, there are so many other factors such as environmental conditions that change the game
4) getting 7 mpg while towing blows
5) we will take the turbo off the diesel when you take out two cylinders (yes, both retarded)
6) the 5.4 is a turd for towing, I don't care what the funk you say!
7) one guy on here has too much time to research funky quotes
8) what ya'll have said is the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent discussion were any of you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the forum is now dumber for having read it. I award all ya'll no points and may God have mercy on your souls!!!
9) I like Rush's post better!
Fact's are:
1) the magazine article is a bogus comparison (weight difference and length of pull)
2) people are not comparing same vehicles
3) paper means nothing in the real world, there are so many other factors such as environmental conditions that change the game
4) getting 7 mpg while towing blows
5) we will take the turbo off the diesel when you take out two cylinders (yes, both retarded)
6) the 5.4 is a turd for towing, I don't care what the funk you say!
7) one guy on here has too much time to research funky quotes
8) what ya'll have said is the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent discussion were any of you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the forum is now dumber for having read it. I award all ya'll no points and may God have mercy on your souls!!!
9) I like Rush's post better!
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Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
From: emporium
No, he thinks that a diesel tuner makes big power by increasing boost pressure and keeping the air-fuel ratio constant. He's doesn't understand how a diesel can increase power output just by adding fuel alone. Most the recent conversation is related to fueling as a power adder. But he's taken it way off course now.
Edit: Read Crazy's post. It's better than mine and I didn't see it before I posted.
Edit: Read Crazy's post. It's better than mine and I didn't see it before I posted.
never said anything about a tuner.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
So go ahead and pull the turbo off and see what happens when you've got all that smoke pouring out of it. Your theory says it'll still make alot of power without a turbo to add airflow to the equation. Prove me wrong-I'm waiting.
There's a real reason that there are very few to no N/A diesels left out there in on-road vehicles-they're a pig.
JL
There's a real reason that there are very few to no N/A diesels left out there in on-road vehicles-they're a pig.
JL
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
From: emporium
You were wrong the first time and you're still wrong. Wanna go for a perfect three out of three? If you poor a bunch of fuel into a diesel then you get a bunch of power and a whole bunch of smoke. You can make things even better with a properly sized turbocharger, but it is not necessary.
The same thing does NOT happen to gasoline engines. You have to be extremely careful with the fuel-air ratio and that limits the amount of fuel you can inject. I've owned supercharged cars in the past and currently have a supercharged big block Chevy. Running lean is the death of a supercharged engine.
The same thing does NOT happen to gasoline engines. You have to be extremely careful with the fuel-air ratio and that limits the amount of fuel you can inject. I've owned supercharged cars in the past and currently have a supercharged big block Chevy. Running lean is the death of a supercharged engine.
yes you can put more fuel into a diesel and get more power, but only to a certain point. to much fuel and theres not enough air.
"Mifflin Clay"
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,177
Likes: 4
From: Mifflin, PA
I don't know, all this science makes my head hurt and means jack chit!
Fact's are:
1) the magazine article is a bogus comparison (weight difference and length of pull)
2) people are not comparing same vehicles
3) paper means nothing in the real world, there are so many other factors such as environmental conditions that change the game
4) getting 7 mpg while towing blows
5) we will take the turbo off the diesel when you take out two cylinders (yes, both retarded)
6) the 5.4 is a turd for towing, I don't care what the funk you say!
7) one guy on here has too much time to research funky quotes
8) what ya'll have said is the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent discussion were any of you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the forum is now dumber for having read it. I award all ya'll no points and may God have mercy on your souls!!!
9) I like Rush's post better!
Fact's are:
1) the magazine article is a bogus comparison (weight difference and length of pull)
2) people are not comparing same vehicles
3) paper means nothing in the real world, there are so many other factors such as environmental conditions that change the game
4) getting 7 mpg while towing blows
5) we will take the turbo off the diesel when you take out two cylinders (yes, both retarded)
6) the 5.4 is a turd for towing, I don't care what the funk you say!
7) one guy on here has too much time to research funky quotes
8) what ya'll have said is the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent discussion were any of you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the forum is now dumber for having read it. I award all ya'll no points and may God have mercy on your souls!!!
9) I like Rush's post better!
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 2
Either half of us are right and half of us are wrong, or everybody is wrong. But we can't all be right. 
Good bye to the insane and ridiculously long V10 vs. PSD thread of summer 2009. We'll meet again next year, I'm sure.
Good bye to the insane and ridiculously long V10 vs. PSD thread of summer 2009. We'll meet again next year, I'm sure.