Gas vs PSD
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
Yeah, and there's no reason to even do the math if you already have your mind made up. Friend of mine ALWAYS says you need torque to pull a hill and a gasser will never have the torque of a diesel. I tell him my truck has more rear wheel torque than his (he had a 7.3L) and he'd say something like, yeah but it can't pull like a diesel. Yeah that makes sense. You need torque, I've got more, but since I don't have a diesel the torque is invisible, non-existant and doesn't have an impact on pulling/power. I guess if you sniff diesel fumes long enough you either can't do the math or won't believe it when someone else does it. 
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 39
Oh, there's ignorance in this thread alright. It's rampant. People get boners about their big torque numbers and dismiss everything else, mainly that torque is only part of the equation.
If a properly-geared 300 HP motor does not outpull a properly geared 250 HP motor, someone is lying about their numbers.
Would I want to tow with that 300 HP motor, if it had to turn 4,000 rpm to do the job? No. I'd still pick my wimpy 7.3, because it feels like it's not working as hard. Perception is a big part of this.
This is exactly what I went through when I stopped towing with my 330 HP GM small block, and started towing with my 7.3. I expected MUCH more out of the Ford, until I looked closely at the numbers. The GM will tow circles around the 7.3, but it's loud as hell and uses about twice the fuel.
If a properly-geared 300 HP motor does not outpull a properly geared 250 HP motor, someone is lying about their numbers.
Would I want to tow with that 300 HP motor, if it had to turn 4,000 rpm to do the job? No. I'd still pick my wimpy 7.3, because it feels like it's not working as hard. Perception is a big part of this.
This is exactly what I went through when I stopped towing with my 330 HP GM small block, and started towing with my 7.3. I expected MUCH more out of the Ford, until I looked closely at the numbers. The GM will tow circles around the 7.3, but it's loud as hell and uses about twice the fuel.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 39
LOL, good one! I'd rep you if I could.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
I dont think anyone has said that the v10 doesnt make more rear wheel torque. You just have to do it at a higher rpm. While i can do it at low rpm and still have more pedal. A diesel should get better milage because of the lower rpm. Lets throw another twist in it also, and add mods. I can make much bigger numbers from my diesel then with a v10. Even if you keep it simple, say just a programmer. A gas engine may be able to get 25 more HP and have to run premium. While a diesel can easily make 100+ more with basic tunning.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
You may not have said the V10 does make more rear wheel torque, but I've never met (personally met, shook hands with sort of met) a diesel owner that would say the V10 (let alone any gas engine) could come anywhere close. They look at flywheel numbers for torque and that's it...again, not you, but some people.
You're absolutely right about the programmers, as far as I know anyway, that you can get a lot out of those diesels, incredible gains compared to the gasser with a programmer. You'd certainly have me beat I'm sure if we both had programmers.
You're absolutely right about the programmers, as far as I know anyway, that you can get a lot out of those diesels, incredible gains compared to the gasser with a programmer. You'd certainly have me beat I'm sure if we both had programmers.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Another thing i was thinking of, how quick does the hp and tq drop off after the peak on a v10? havent been able to find a dyno chart. Which has a more usable powerband? What im tryin to say, if we both have stock from factory lets say 05 350s, one v10 one 6.0. To lazy to look up optinal gear ratios right now.lol We both have the same load, on the same hill already rollin cuz we both know a diesel would win off the line. You have to run up to 4000rpm or somethin like that, while i can keep it around say 2500 or possibly less, somewhere around or just past tq peak. I can still put more pedal to it and stay in usable power band, hp doesnt signifacanlty drop till like 3750rpm. What about the v10? where does the tq hp curve intersect, if it does at all?
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Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
For the V10, peak torque is at 3250 RPMs, while peak HP is at 4,750 RPMs.
A stock 3V 5.4 can NOT pull a stock 6.0. Anytime, anywhere. You're absolutely right about usable power down low with your 6.0, and the 5.4 peaks out at 300 HP, against your 325. There'd be no contest.
As stated above, the diesel will have to rev less to make big power, therefore it would have an easier time with the load. Never had any issue with that, and this is part of the reason I enjoy my PSD so much.
I just think it's important to remember that there's more than one way to skin a cat. The PSD method gets the job done nice 'n easy. The V10 may take a bit more effort, but it can be done just as fast!
A stock 3V 5.4 can NOT pull a stock 6.0. Anytime, anywhere. You're absolutely right about usable power down low with your 6.0, and the 5.4 peaks out at 300 HP, against your 325. There'd be no contest.
As stated above, the diesel will have to rev less to make big power, therefore it would have an easier time with the load. Never had any issue with that, and this is part of the reason I enjoy my PSD so much.
I just think it's important to remember that there's more than one way to skin a cat. The PSD method gets the job done nice 'n easy. The V10 may take a bit more effort, but it can be done just as fast!
Elder User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 699
Likes: 1
You may not have said the V10 does make more rear wheel torque, but I've never met (personally met, shook hands with sort of met) a diesel owner that would say the V10 (let alone any gas engine) could come anywhere close. They look at flywheel numbers for torque and that's it...again, not you, but some people.
You're absolutely right about the programmers, as far as I know anyway, that you can get a lot out of those diesels, incredible gains compared to the gasser with a programmer. You'd certainly have me beat I'm sure if we both had programmers.
You're absolutely right about the programmers, as far as I know anyway, that you can get a lot out of those diesels, incredible gains compared to the gasser with a programmer. You'd certainly have me beat I'm sure if we both had programmers.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
Question: How much of that power is lost at higher altitudes with the V10's?? I assume all the numbers everyone has been throwing around are for sea level performance.
