This whole thing wouldn't have to end if some of the psd guys would quit trying to bully the v10 guys into conceding or making the thread so miserable that no one wants to be a part of it. There has been more good come of the thread than bad and it would be nice to keep it that way. When everyone plays nice together it leads to good things like the get togethers Tom, Mike and Matt were able to put together.

You are still missing the point of what most of the v10 or gasser guys like myself and Bill have been arguing. We aren't saying the v10 is a better towing engine than the psd. We have admitted that the psd gets better mpg's, does better at low rpm's, requires less downshifting, will get a load moving must faster and easier if compared with the same gearing, etc.
What we are saying is that with both starting at peak torque but doing the same speed the v10 can accelerate faster than the psd(or with better gearing off the line to get the load moving). At 2,000 rpm the 6.4 is making 248 hp and at 3,000 rpm it is making 350 hp. At 3,250 rpm the v10 is making 280 hp and at 5200 rpm it is making 362 hp. The real world situation there is that if you pull a hill in 5th at 2,000 rpm (like all psd owners like to brag about), the v10 can downshift to 4th and have more engine hp and have the gearing reduction to put even more power to the ground and will accelerate faster. Compare them in the same gear at the same rpm and the psd will win hands down, but compare them at the same speed but both at peak torque or above and the v10 will win.

 

By saying things like " the V10 boys" you put everyone on the defense to start with. It's also not true, since I stated many, many times that if I towed heavy or regularly, I'd get a diesel. But nobody reads those posts, they only read the trash and cherry pick what they want to read. So here is my say on the subject (again): I do not tow often enough or heavy enough loads to warrant the extra expense of buying, maintaining and repairing a diesel. We have a 6.4 SD at work and while it does have power and lots of it, as it sits, it gets worse mileage than my V10. I know that can be fixed and I also know it's not typical, nor is it freeway miles. It's been the picture of reliablity, but then again, it should be, it's only two years old. My '04 is actually a seven year old truck and has never had so much as a "Check Engine" light (knock on wood). As for the 6.4, I'll wait another five years and see how reliable it's been before I pass judgement. It may well be just as relaible, but if not, and it was off warrantee, I could not afford to fix it, nor could I do anything on it myself. BUt I'm confident I'd at least have a fighting chance with my V10.
Next is plain old personal preference. Ever since I first caught a whiff of the school bus exhaust my freshman year in high school back in '76, I've not been a fan of diesel engines. The smell of the fuel, the smell of the exhaust, the racket of the whole engine in no way are even remotely appealing to me. I know not everyone feels that way, and I for one am glad about that. For the record, I'm pretty sure we all don't agree on paint colors or wheel choices, either so get over it. We are individuals and by pure definition, we are different from one another in needs, wants, choices, likes and dislikes when it comes to pretty much anything. In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that".

 

But the PSD can just downshift to 2,500 rpms and pull the hill, with the 600 ft torque, or 800 like the new 6.7.

Though I do agree with you on one thing, having the get togethers is awesome. We need another one. Anyone around the NW game? I am getting ready to get back to work, but I have some time the next month...

 

Exactly why I had the second paragraph there, matter of preference.... (And I do like the end quote ). Truthfully, I don't tow enough to truly realize the benefit of the PSD, but when I do tow, I just like the easiness of it. And going through MT, it is nice even unloaded getting 17 or so. A recent trip where I could only go 65 on busy 2 lane roads, I got 20. To me, that is so worth it.

My only source of arguing back is the "my 362 hp means I will outpull your 350 hp" even with a 200 ft torque or whatever disadvantage. LOL So like I just said, we need another pulloff, this time at freeway speed.

 

If you drop 1 then the V10 can just drop 2. Its then pulling harder and you can't drop a gear to match it.
The 6.7 is a beast and the V10 will not touch it. It's not been updated since 05 and the PSD then only made 325. You know what the V10 could be like if it had the money put into it that Ford put into the 6.4 and then the 6.7?

The torque disadvantage does not matter once you get the load rolling and the RPMs up. With elevation that 12 HP the V10 has over it goes away fast and at 5,000'+ either a 6.0 or 6.4 will start pulling noticeablely harder than a 3V.

With my 310HP V10 and the same year 7.3 making 235, you can not say that I won't pull better. At least until we really get up high.

 

That's just not true. If you actually look at the hp/torque curves and understand the transmission and axle ratios a stock V10 will go faster than the PSD (up to 6.0 and possibly the 6.4L). When you downshift so can I. I can do it again and still not reach the peak power as I continue to gain speed where your PSD is topped out in peak "power". Most people don't look past the engine's peak power as stated in the sale brochures. They don't understand how the power is applied where the rubber meets the road.

As an example, you can look at the pickuptrucks.com article. When the 6.4L peaked in the tests the V10 equipped truck was still gaining in speed. In short tests the PSD beats the V10, but the V10 continues to gain speed as it gains in RPM as it gains in the peak hp/torque curves. Bottom line, if the "test" is over a mile long, the V10 will outpull the PSD. When you have a short test, that favors the PSD (getting the load started), and the PSD wins. I haven't had to tow less than one mile though...so I don't give the tests a lot of value. Where the rubber meets the road and on the roads around here, the PSD is not always better (there are variables that allow one to function better than the other). No one can argue that .

I won't drive up to Washington, but if you're ever going through Oregon (I'm at the southern border, near California) we can do some real world testing if you want.

 

Do a pull off to prove your point!

 

You mean the point on the last line? I'm still waiting for a stock 7.3 owner in Texas to take me up on it.

I really want to though!

 

Well, a 15% 700 foot hill from a stop is not "real world" to me. I am talking a 6 mile 6% grade, where I can pull at the speed limit in 4th gear, barely breaking a sweat and you are busting the seams like you are gonna blow at 4,500 rpms (I know, they are meant to do that, doesn't mean I like it).

My point is, the test should be real world, moving start at the speed limit and try to maintain the speed limit.

Actually I might be in Coos Bay soon, still not sure. And Sand Man said he would give me a pull. Still not sure why I have to meet you all the way there, must be afraid of the fuel mileage?

 

Sounds like a great test.

 

I would like ot point out to all those touting their hp number as proof of anything. HP is NOT a measurable number and it doesn't move anything.

HP is purely a mathematical formula. HP=tq x (rpm/5252)

You want to increase the hp of an engine? simple just increase the rpms of the torque curve. HP is a great sales tactic but is actually meaningless.

example of how this works and what it truly means. The Semi I drive has 465hp so that's only 100 more then a V10, Does anyone think that their V10 can get an 80,000lb load moving up to 65mph in less then 5 minutes? And maintain that speed on any kind of hill (or a PSD for that matter) Simple answer is not likely. But hey it is more hp, ok the second Semi I owned had 325hp I would put that up against ANY truck in this thread for straight up pulling power. So pulling 80k why does an engine with 40hp less do a better job? because it has 1450ft/lbs of tq. it just had it at a lower rpm so because of the math involved it shows less hp. Take that same tq number and put it at 2500rpm and now you have 690hp bump it to 3500 and you have 966hp.

You want a true measurement of what any given engine can move? The only number that matters is the tq. Everything else is just sales numbers.

BTW you gear a diesel to operate at higher rpms and it can't pull squat, you gear a gasser of any type to operate at lower rpms and it falls on it's face. You take 2 engines with the same tq numbers and gear them to run at the peak rpms they will pull equally, and the fuel is irrelevant at that point.

 

Each application eh, how about ordering at the local Mickey D's ?

yeah the new 2011 Diesels look really sharp, until I need a new truck im sticking with my v10, love the performance, and engine break on it going down hills, cant argue with a 6.8 liter displacement, while the largest ( i believe) for diesels is a 6.4.... correct me if im wrong.... Volume is needed for sheer "slow down" abilities.

And its pretty sweet pulling up to someone ....
- what do you got in there? 8 ... 8 .... 6 ....8 .... 8 ....

----------- yeah i got a V10 ! ha ha

 

Sorry, but you are wrong. HorsePOWER is the power the engine has to give. A 362HP V10 with the proper gearing would out-pull that 325HP semi diesel engine. It will be revving to the moon, but it would do it.

Say you gear each engine so they are at their horsepower peak in top gear at 60 MPH. Lets also say that Semi engine makes 325HP @ 2100 RPM, and the V10 makes 362HP @ 5000 RPM. Lets assume this theoretical big rig has a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires.

For the diesel to achieve 2100 RPM (peak HP RPM) at 60MPH with a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires requires a top gear in the transmission of 1.12:1. For the V10 to do the same speed at its peak HP RPM (5000 RPM), would require a top transmission gear of 2.66:1.

Lets start with the Diesel: 325HP @ 2100 RPM = 812 lb-ft of torque. 812 lb-ft of torque x 1.12 x 3.73 = 3395 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.

Now the V10: 362HP @ 5000 RPM = 380 lb-ft of torque. 380 lb-ft of torque x 2.66 x 3.73 = 3772 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.

What this shows is that HP is NOT meaningless. If you put both engines in a gear that puts them at their peak HP at a specific road speed, the higher HP engine will always put more torque to the wheels. Yes the V10 would be at some high RPMs to do that, but it will out-pull that 325 HP 812 lb-ft diesel.

 

Good stuff to consider

Gearing is huge! - my v10 is set up for towing and it pulls really well, saw some guys the other day that were not set up for towing ( cause they thought that the diesel didnt need the gearing cause of the massive ft-lbs advertised) and they really struggled out of the boat launch. yeah the v10 just humms at 2000-2500 rpm, but its sounds a lot better then a lugging diesel

 

So are you saying that 1000 foot pounds at 500 RPM will pull harder than 500 at 3000 RPM?