There is a big difference between reliability and blowing an engine up... In that even the 6.0 has its problems, but very few "blew up". They stopped running and have been repaired. You might say "well it takes $3,000 to fix the head gaskets and the v10 engine only costs $2,000." That is not a fair comparison because you can repair the head gasket for only $50 if you do the work, same as it only costs $2,000 to replace the v10 engine if you do the work.

Point is, that is bad if you have to worry about blowing up a v10 because no PSD owner worries about blowing theirs up and what engine will replace it.

 

Yeah, blow the head gaskets, suck some coolant into a cylinder or overheat, and BANG - it's DESTROYED. Or, do the work ahead of time, replace with ARP head studs (not Ford or International products, by the way) and go your merry way. Oh wait, did you pay for someone to do that work? Did your truck sit at the dealer for 2 weeks under warranty while you needed it to WORK? Or did you do it yourself in your backyard?

The continued fallacy here is that "maybe some other work" is a blip on the radar of reliability. It's not.

If you haven't noticed, this thread is mainly about "V10 vs. PSD" - not "gas vs. diesel". It's devolved in a few spots, but please, TRY to keep it V10 vs. PSD when you are answering someone's posts that directly address the PSD.

Yeah, except that pesky little RECALL over the CPS that leaves you stranded that we all knew about for most of it's life.

On the other hand, a Ford-built diesel is ABOUT TIME. Ford can't point fingers at International, and International can't point fingers at Ford. No warranty disputes, no wasted time figuring out who's to blame, no "go to the International dealer down the road and buy a good (grey?) CPS and be done with it".

I can't even remember the last time a V10 blew a head gasket for any reason other than severe overheating which was the owner's fault for not maintaining it. There are very rare instances of where a head gasket caused an oil leak (seeping) at the block-to-head interface, but that wasn't even a major big deal. It certainly didn't leave people stuck on the side of the road.

If you want to say it's only $50 to do a head gasket on your 6.0, well, it's only $50 to do a head gasket on a V10. Wait, it might actually be more like $120 with head bolts because they can't be reused. Compare apples-to-apples. I also suspect that it's not just $50 - if you don't want it happening again, you use ARP head studs, right? Are the head gasket AND the studs only $50?

You talk about "not a fair comparison" and yet you compare a 6.0 blowing a head gasket costing $50 to a V10's complete engine failure costing $2000? You can't have it both ways.

 

That comparison was made because of Bills comment about blowing up a v10 and replacing the engine. No psd owner worries about replacing the engine and that is a fact.

And studs are $400 and no they are not required, just people that push their trucks beyond the stock limits need studs. My point was the reliability and replacing an engine are two different things. And the vast majority of v10 owners would be psd owners if there was no upfront cost difference.

 

Whether or not it blows up or just stopped running, it is unacceptable to me. I don't like to head out on a trip and not know for sure that my truck is going to make it.

I don't worry about blowing up my gasser any more than I worry about blowing up my 7.3. The point Bill was trying to make is that even if his v10 does blow up he can rebuild the entire engine for less than it costs to fix some of the common problems on the 6.0. I can do a stock rebuild on the 5.0 in my Bronco for about what a set of injectors costs for my 7.3, and the 7.3 is one of the cheaper psd's to work on. I haven't rebuilt a modular yet, so I can't say for sure on the price to rebuild a stock one. Maybe someone else can provide that info.

 

Understood.

It's NOT all about up-front costs. If you have been listening to anything here, RELIABILITY, MAINTENANCE, and COST OF REPAIRS are major contributing factors.

I did seriously consider a 7.3 when I bought my '01, and was looking at '02s. But the MAINTENANCE, and COST OF REPAIRS kept me away from it.

I already knew about the CPS and other issues because I was a regular visitor here at FTE, and registered after I bought my '01 in June of '02.

The upfront-cost wasn't an issue because the company I worked for as an IT consultant was leasing it for me and I had a big enough budget to work with. But, I was going to do all my own maintenance so it took directly from my pocket, not the company's. Fuel, however, was covered by the company for business stuff.

PROS:

Fuel mileage. I get 16 with my V10 empty on the highway, and the 7.3 get's maybe 25-30% more distance from the same amount of fuel. Around town, well, I get 5.5 and up. That's what the Cougar is for

Towing ability - which for the V10 vs. 7.3, was questionable given Ford's own literature on "tractive force" which has been reviewed here at length.

CONS:

Repair costs after warranty was up. I planned on keeping this truck FOREVER, and still do. I leased it for four years with someone else paying the bill, and bought it for $9K under the terms of the lease.

Maintenance. Coming out of my own pocket for filters and oil.

It uses diesel. One of my biggest bitches about driving trucks in my early to mid 20's was the smell of the fuel, having worked on them. I really seriously can't even stand the smell of raw diesel. I can BEAR it. But not for long periods of time. Maybe that makes me effeminate. So be it.

Reliability (not so much a CON but not a PRO neither). As far as I could tell, looking at the V10's reliability record in 2002, going back 5 years because it was introduced in 1997, and going even further back for the modulars all the way to 1991, having owned two 4.6L's at this time both of which were totally problem free, engine-wise, the V10 was easily as reliable as the 7.3. Maybe it wouldn't stand up to 300K miles of driving, even though now we all know they DO last, but that wasn't a concern of mine. One of the diesels I drove (Isuzu NPR) blew up because of what can only be theorized was a few drops of water getting past the air filter as it happened in heavy rain but never found any water in the intake or cylinders. Spun two rod bearings, cracked EVERY piston. Diesel reliability. At 95K miles, it was toast and needed a complete rebuild. Now I know, a gas engine can hydrolock too, but so severely on so little water? And after I stopped driving, that truck needed like 3 turbos, it's replacment used 3-4 turbos in it's 300K mile lifetime, etc. etc. Apples-to-oranges, but it left a bad taste in my mouth for turbo diesels.

Anyway, I should stop now.

 

Krewat summed it up for me... it has nothing to do with up front cost I could have easily paid that, it has everything to do with reliability and ease of preventive maintenance and working on them if I have to. I personally will run my trucks to 200-225k miles in 4-5 years give them to wife and she'll drive them for the next 4-5 years putting on 20-30k miles. And never do I worry about the truck leaving her stranded somewhere. The DSLs on the other hand are just a little to much involved if something goes wrong and if they can't get to it I won't be making money while I wait for them to fix it.

I might be the luckiest guy around but after 800K +/- I've never been stranded or had the gas engine "blow up" or need rebuilding in any of the gas engine trucks I've owned.

This V10 likes it's fuel but hell I knew that going in and it's a truck made for work. I for one will not put a price tag on the BSEG it brings when driving it.

 

QUOTE :
Without giving any reasons whatsoever, the V10 is better. The PSD is a crap engine and should be scrapped by Ford. Ford should only offer their current 3V V10 in all vehicles, from Focus to F-Series to beyond. I think they should power the current space shuttle with the V10, but no matter how many letters I've sent to my congress persons and NASA they haven't accepted the idea yet.



ha ha, id love to see a v10 in the new fiesta !

I drove a 2008 PSD the other day, it has quite a bit of lagg in comparison to my 05 v10.

the PS probably has more power, im not arguing that, but the v10 is just so much more fun to drive and is way more peppy !

 

I have had a 2004 and 2006 diesel and I am convince that it is overall less expensive to own and operate a gas unit that a diesel. Especially when the difference between diesel and gas is 50 cents to a dollar a gallon as it was just a couple of years ago. The mpg isn't really that much difference between the gas and the diesel when pull an RV. Then the on going diesel maintenance is higher that a diesel, then the initial cost of the diesel is $5000 or more to buy than a gas. Then the convenience of locating fuel is mush easier that a diesel. My next pickup will be a gas unit.

 

Well now, we have a new moderator! I want my name in red!

 

Not much facts at all, really. I have a freind that lives about a mile from me that has had his '04 6.0 for sale for over a year due to extreme unreliablity. He's beyond replacing the engine (been there, done that) he wants to replace the truck, and it ain't with another diesel! As for the "vast majority of V10 owners..." I must not be in that sector. I could have easily bought a diesel for what I paid for my truck. Know why I didn't? I wanted a Ford, but in all honesty haven't heard too many guys with older Ford diesels bragging about how cheap they are, and I plan on keeping my truck a LOOOOONG time, therefore it needs to last. I also hate the sound and smell of both diesel exhaust and diesel fuel. Also, I don't want to be lumped in with all the wannabe truckers rollin' with filthy, banged-up diesels in my area. Call my truck a grocery getter all you want, but at least I don't need to shut off the clattering mess at my bank's drive-thu window just to hear the teller. Does mine tow well? Yep. Does it start everytime I ask it to? Yep. Can I live with the mileage? Yep.

 

Yeah, that is why I did not say "all" LOL.

My diesel, even though it is built, does not smoke, smell of diesel, or anything. Though my buddys 1995 does, that thing smokes worse than a frieght train. Newer diesels don't smell or smoke. I will agree, the 2003 and 2004 6.0 have tons of problems.

 

Seriously?

 

I'm kind of sad that ford doesn't offer a modern naturally aspirated diesel. Turbos are for performance cars. Diesels were never designed for high rev driving,but for pulling power.

I remember the days when if you had a complete electrical failure on a diesel you could still get home on mechanical power alone.

 

Just handling the fuel nozzel I can smell it on my hand all day, and ( most ) women do not like dudes that smell like diesel.

 

Non turbo diesels are not worth much for pulling.

My IDI can not pull a 3% hill at the speed limit if it has a load in the bed.