Gas vs PSD
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
Likes: 9
From: iowa
Sorry, but you are wrong. HorsePOWER is the power the engine has to give. A 362HP V10 with the proper gearing would out-pull that 325HP semi diesel engine. It will be revving to the moon, but it would do it.
Say you gear each engine so they are at their horsepower peak in top gear at 60 MPH. Lets also say that Semi engine makes 325HP @ 2100 RPM, and the V10 makes 362HP @ 5000 RPM. Lets assume this theoretical big rig has a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires.
For the diesel to achieve 2100 RPM (peak HP RPM) at 60MPH with a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires requires a top gear in the transmission of 1.12:1. For the V10 to do the same speed at its peak HP RPM (5000 RPM), would require a top transmission gear of 2.66:1.
Lets start with the Diesel: 325HP @ 2100 RPM = 812 lb-ft of torque. 812 lb-ft of torque x 1.12 x 3.73 = 3395 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.
Now the V10: 362HP @ 5000 RPM = 380 lb-ft of torque. 380 lb-ft of torque x 2.66 x 3.73 = 3772 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.
What this shows is that HP is NOT meaningless. If you put both engines in a gear that puts them at their peak HP at a specific road speed, the higher HP engine will always put more torque to the wheels. Yes the V10 would be at some high RPMs to do that, but it will out-pull that 325 HP 812 lb-ft diesel.
Say you gear each engine so they are at their horsepower peak in top gear at 60 MPH. Lets also say that Semi engine makes 325HP @ 2100 RPM, and the V10 makes 362HP @ 5000 RPM. Lets assume this theoretical big rig has a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires.
For the diesel to achieve 2100 RPM (peak HP RPM) at 60MPH with a 3.73 rear end and 40" tall tires requires a top gear in the transmission of 1.12:1. For the V10 to do the same speed at its peak HP RPM (5000 RPM), would require a top transmission gear of 2.66:1.
Lets start with the Diesel: 325HP @ 2100 RPM = 812 lb-ft of torque. 812 lb-ft of torque x 1.12 x 3.73 = 3395 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.
Now the V10: 362HP @ 5000 RPM = 380 lb-ft of torque. 380 lb-ft of torque x 2.66 x 3.73 = 3772 lb-ft of torque to the wheels.
What this shows is that HP is NOT meaningless. If you put both engines in a gear that puts them at their peak HP at a specific road speed, the higher HP engine will always put more torque to the wheels. Yes the V10 would be at some high RPMs to do that, but it will out-pull that 325 HP 812 lb-ft diesel.
Simply put wrong....
HP is not measurable, you MUST get that fact clear before anything else. HP is NOT a actual figure. TQ is what moves stuff.
BTW your rpm range for the 325hp diesel is wrong, it makes 1450ft/lbs at 1150rpm NOT 2100.
So you want to redo your math? Ok using your number 1450 X 1.12 X 3.73 = 6057lb-ft to the wheels. (not sure about your math as your trans ratios don't make sense but ok, but using it changes a LOT )
I promise you that your V10 will NOT out pull taht 325hp diesel. using fuzzy math doesn't change physics.
New User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: canada
Overall i dont think its what you got but how you use it !
yeah i know its a dodge, what can you expect though, the ford is just pulling a pile of junk around!
YouTube - ‪truck pull 97 2500 v10 vs 05 2500 diesel‬‎
yeah i know its a dodge, what can you expect though, the ford is just pulling a pile of junk around!
YouTube - ‪truck pull 97 2500 v10 vs 05 2500 diesel‬‎
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
Simply put wrong....
HP is not measurable, you MUST get that fact clear before anything else. HP is NOT a actual figure. TQ is what moves stuff.
BTW your rpm range for the 325hp diesel is wrong, it makes 1450ft/lbs at 1150rpm NOT 2100.
So you want to redo your math? Ok using your number 1450 X 1.12 X 3.73 = 6057lb-ft to the wheels. (not sure about your math as your trans ratios don't make sense but ok, but using it changes a LOT )
I promise you that your V10 will NOT out pull taht 325hp diesel. using fuzzy math doesn't change physics.
HP is not measurable, you MUST get that fact clear before anything else. HP is NOT a actual figure. TQ is what moves stuff.
BTW your rpm range for the 325hp diesel is wrong, it makes 1450ft/lbs at 1150rpm NOT 2100.
So you want to redo your math? Ok using your number 1450 X 1.12 X 3.73 = 6057lb-ft to the wheels. (not sure about your math as your trans ratios don't make sense but ok, but using it changes a LOT )
I promise you that your V10 will NOT out pull taht 325hp diesel. using fuzzy math doesn't change physics.
These transmission ratios make perfect sense. They were chosen to allow both engines to be at the RPM in which they make their maximum horsepower at a cruising speed of 60MPH. It proves that horsepower DOES matter.
The V10's peak torque is 457 lb-ft @ 3,250 RPM or 283HP. Now that would require a transmission gear ratio in our theoretical truck of 1.73:1 to do 60MPH at that RPM. 457 lb-ft x 1.73 x 3.73 = 2949 lb-ft at the wheels. Compare that to the 3772 lb-ft of wheel torque you get when you use the torque numbers at its peak HP RPM.
Are you still going to try and argue with me that HP doesn't matter?
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Yes, when I stop making speed at 90mph with a load, the V10 is still gaining speed...21, 22.....23.........24, etc. So yes, you're correct.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
You kind of missed the point though...
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
Well, a 15% 700 foot hill from a stop is not "real world" to me. I am talking a 6 mile 6% grade, where I can pull at the speed limit in 4th gear, barely breaking a sweat and you are busting the seams like you are gonna blow at 4,500 rpms (I know, they are meant to do that, doesn't mean I like it).
My point is, the test should be real world, moving start at the speed limit and try to maintain the speed limit.
...
My point is, the test should be real world, moving start at the speed limit and try to maintain the speed limit.
...
The Siskiyou Summit (California/Oregon border) is the tallest peak on Interstate 5. That should be a really good test.
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
Another thing to consider, that I think I lot of owners of either truck do not consider is that the V10 makes almost all of it's power at 1500 - 2000 RPM and then continues to increase and holde that power for another 3000 RPM or more. So, the V10 truck has a much broader power range, not a short one limited to 2000 - 2500 RPM.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 0
From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Another thing to consider, that I think I lot of owners of either truck do not consider is that the V10 makes almost all of it's power at 1500 - 2000 RPM and then continues to increase and holde that power for another 3000 RPM or more. So, the V10 truck has a much broader power range, not a short one limited to 2000 - 2500 RPM.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
Feel free to debate the merits of them, but...PSD FTW!!
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 3
From: So Oregon
They do have a waiting list to buy the V10 as a matter of fact. Hang out for a while down in the V10 forum and ask how many people ordered their truck with a V10. It's often easier to order the V10 than to find one on the lots because they go so quick. The truck I bought was in fact purchased (by me) before it arrived at the dealership. I found it while it was still in transit, to a dealership out of town. I was told it was not out of the ordinary to pre-sell V10s the same way mine was because people were waiting to purchase them and looked for them/found them online before delivery.
New User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: canada
Another thing to consider, that I think I lot of owners of either truck do not consider is that the V10 makes almost all of it's power at 1500 - 2000 RPM and then continues to increase and holde that power for another 3000 RPM or more. So, the V10 truck has a much broader power range, not a short one limited to 2000 - 2500 RPM.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
So, you have a truck that's pulling at almost full power and doesn't drop off that power until traveling well faster than the PSD. It's fact. The V10 has the capacity (stock vs stock) to outpull the PSD to freeway speed. Where the V10 falls short is at elevation where it begins to lose power where the turbo keeps the PSD power from falling off.
Conquest Vehicles | Vehicle Specifications
Conquest Vehicles | Knight XV
Its an armoured tank basically that weighs over 13000 lbs, and they chose the V10 !
Diesel is an option, but it does NOT say if its a PSD or another make, for all i know it could be a perter built, or cat engine
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
Each application eh, how about ordering at the local Mickey D's ?
yeah the new 2011 Diesels look really sharp, until I need a new truck im sticking with my v10, love the performance, and engine break on it going down hills, cant argue with a 6.8 liter displacement, while the largest ( i believe) for diesels is a 6.4.... correct me if im wrong.... Volume is needed for sheer "slow down" abilities.
And its pretty sweet pulling up to someone ....
- what do you got in there? 8 ... 8 .... 6 ....8 .... 8 ....
----------- yeah i got a V10 ! ha ha
yeah the new 2011 Diesels look really sharp, until I need a new truck im sticking with my v10, love the performance, and engine break on it going down hills, cant argue with a 6.8 liter displacement, while the largest ( i believe) for diesels is a 6.4.... correct me if im wrong.... Volume is needed for sheer "slow down" abilities.
And its pretty sweet pulling up to someone ....
- what do you got in there? 8 ... 8 .... 6 ....8 .... 8 ....
----------- yeah i got a V10 ! ha ha
And displacement is not needed for "slow down" abilities... You see, diesels have what is called a turbo, which can also be used as a brake. Though I did not get that programmed into mine because my engine and torqshift does just fine slowing down my 10,000 pound trailer.
And to really make you feel bad, you can get it programmed into diesels to where at idle they make almost zero noise, so the visit to Mickey D's is just fine.
haha, this is fun!
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
Displacement is NOT a good indicator of anything... And the comment that "there is no replacement for displacement" is retarded. Technology is a huge replacement for displacement. The PSD went from 7.3 to 6.0 in 2003 and hp and torque went way up. Why? technology. Why does a 250 cc two stroke run in the 450 4 stroke class on dirt bikes?
The torque and power went way up because the 6.0 and 6.4 run much higher boost levels then the 7.3 ever did.
And displacement is not needed for "slow down" abilities... You see, diesels have what is called a turbo, which can also be used as a brake. Though I did not get that programmed into mine because my engine and torqshift does just fine slowing down my 10,000 pound trailer.
All gasoline engines have a throttle valve, which gives a gasoline engine a lot of engine braking.
And to really make you feel bad, you can get it programmed into diesels to where at idle they make almost zero noise, so the visit to Mickey D's is just fine.
haha, this is fun!
haha, this is fun!
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
The V10 is a great engine, just look at what it it is put into, its the standard engine for this beast !
Conquest Vehicles | Vehicle Specifications
Conquest Vehicles | Knight XV
Its an armoured tank basically that weighs over 13000 lbs, and they chose the V10 !
Diesel is an option, but it does NOT say if its a PSD or another make, for all i know it could be a perter built, or cat engine
Conquest Vehicles | Vehicle Specifications
Conquest Vehicles | Knight XV
Its an armoured tank basically that weighs over 13000 lbs, and they chose the V10 !
Diesel is an option, but it does NOT say if its a PSD or another make, for all i know it could be a perter built, or cat engine
Well that is because millions of people die every year as a smoker, only a few health nuts die a year, comparitively.
So, it is news when a v10 gets a light duty application (as is a half ton is rated to more than 13k gcvw) like moving a 13,000 pound vehicle, whereas millions of diesels are used like that and more every day.
