Depends on if i can get it to hook this next time. Before i go back i'm going to do some suspesion "adjustments" and see if i can get it to hook a little. right now i launch with ZERO boost from an idle in 2nd gear so my 60' times suffer largely. if i try to launch any harder i get wheel hop which i have to blame the crappy shocks and my lower traction bar mounts for that. i gotta weld the traction bar mounts and put some adjustable shocks on the rear so i can stiffen them up when i get to the track. With all that said the truck normally runs a 2.8 second 60', E.T around 14.4, and trap speed of 96-98mph. I haven't run it with my live tuning yet though either. Next time i go i'm planning on a couple of 13's if i can get my 60' times down around 2 seconds.

Funny... this 7.3 is the easiest thing i have ever had to work on. I have worked on several 5.4's and 4.6's and 5.0's and this thing is way easier. the only thing that really sucks is taking off the turbo. the rest is a cake walk.

 

You get what you pay for. If you want to hunt an elephant with a economical .22 pistol, thats fine with me just don't expect to live too long.

 

What I was trying to say is that if you run 30 PSI through a V10, your going to do a full out rebuild with components that can handle that kind of stress, which means you'll probably put in an aggressive cam, free flowing exhaust, hog out the heads, custom intake and the ability to rev it much higher. This is why usually you get more then just 3x the N/A power because of all the other stuff you do to the motor.

My point was that comparing boost amounts between a diesel and a gasser is pointless. 30 PSI on a 7.3 is probably good for what 300-375HP? While 30 PSI on a V10 would be good for well north of 1000HP. You don't need the same boost on a gasser.

I never said they couldn't tow, I said they will destroy themselves. Sure they can do it, so can that theoretical 30 PSI v10, but neither one of them will last doing it. I poke around some medium duty forums sometimes, and many people recommend against turning up the power - even by as little as 50HP on small engines like 7.3s and 5.9 Cummins if you are going to do any kind of real towing. Their life spans get seriously compromised.

 

that depends. I don't think a shop or even the best tunners out there have the ability to remap an entire engine. It would take months to do each engine. So then it becomes how do they get the maps? The would either have to buy them from someone who can map engines (i.e. the manufactures) or group together and do it, I'm doubtful on the later one though. If they buy the mapping from the manufacture, it's going to cost them, and they will have to pass that cost along.

what will eventually happen is that the maps will be leaked out and on to the "black market" and you will be able to down load them your self...

We'll see. Also cars like the GT, there is a big market for, so tuners might try and spend months mapping the engine, but the ones with bucks will buy the maps from Ford if they can and have their products out days after the car.

 

I'm not sure your tuners is completely responsible for that smoothness, although I'm sure a bad tune can screw it up. I think what your seeing is the fact that diesel burns so much differently than gas. Diesel burns much slower than gas (part of the reason why diesels don't go to as high of RPMs as gassers) and this property, in short, give a much "smoother" feel. And spontaneous combustion helps too! So the PSD can be more smooth than the V10 (see how I can stay on topic )

 

Good for you for coming back to clarify your point.

You may want to remember though that unions have different strengths in different areas. For instance the electricians here on site only pay $20 a month in dues, that equates to about 1 hour a month. I know back in Ohio dues were cheap too, although more than $20 a month. I talked to guy from CO once, and he said his dues where crazy expensive. But enough on that

 

Having owned a 7.3, I'll agree with that. The 7.3's aren't bad to work on. But they are the only PSD I would work on. the 6.0 aren't very nice and the 6.4's... well, I'm not lifting a cab. I don't think the new 6.7 looks to nice either, but I could be wrong.

 

Actually i will never tow with another stock truck. at least til i'm very old and just don't want to pull anything anymore. the difference between towing stock and modded is huge. I would love to build a procharged/turbo'd 7.3L tow truck, but i don't think i will ever be able to do that w/ the costs of a procharger and i'm already dropping that on one for my white truck.. My "tow" truck will probably be close to 500hp and thats it. I've riden in modded diesels pulling heavy and when they are set up right there is no way anyone is stopping them..

 

I'm still thinking that it will make less. In general, those things will be done out of necessity. But there will be a few other things you will have to do that will hurt performance, like lowering compression, retarding the ignition timing, probably have to run cooler. You may want to make it rev higher, but that will promote detonation, and is probably a bad idea. Although if you can pull it off, it is a great way to make more power.

Well, I will agree on the pointless part, a diesel will produce less hp because it develops it power at low RPM's, hence it makes torque. Gassers go for higher RPM's and hence make more hp. Any engine that makes a majority of it's power below the 5252 RPM mark will make more torque, any any engine that makes it's power above that magic number will make more hp than torque. The V10 is closer to 5252 than the PSD, so it will always make more hp, but less torque.

In the end though, power is power regardless of what RPM it is made at, it will just present it's self in different forms and will require different gearing to make use of it.

 

How would it take months? Take the people that use the DIY MegaSquirt EFI computer. They have to completely make the fuel and spark tables from scratch. Usually they can have an engine running in less then a day, and have it well tuned within a week or two.

At least with the factory Ford computer you have a base program to work with, and if you have good enough knowledge of the workings of the computer it is not all that hard to pull the existing program off the computer and work from there. If a single guy can write a custom EFI setup in a week or two, I'm betting that a professional tuning shop that has access to the original Ford program can tune an engine - even one with VVT within a few days.

 

Exactly,Those that understand the complex control system,and how to actually "Calibrate" the system instead of hacking it by taking guesses at what to change will be the successful ones with these new controllers. The 2011-up systems will separate the real experts from the hacks and show people how truly ignorant their supposed "Expert" is.
JL

 

An EFI you're dealing with a fuel and spark table. Now make each one of those for every position of the VVT. Look at best option, will it blow the engine up? Test it, does it produce emissions legal exhaust? What is the knock sensor doing? Good? Now move up 100 RPM and repeat.

So let say each map takes 1 day as you say. Now lets say there are 20 positions on VVT (yes I know there are infinite, but let just break it down to 20 ranges). Let say you can eliminate 75% of those positions at any given RPM, so that takes you down to 5 VVT positions per a 100 RPM range. You will need to create a map fuel/spark map for each of those 5 ranges/positions. Find the best one and test it. Lets say that takes a day as you say to create each map. That could take up to 5 days for each VVT range. But lets give tuner, Dr. XXX, the benefit and say he can elinate 2 of those 5 and narrow it down to 3 test. he will still have to make sure it is emissions legal at that RPM.

So it took our tuner Dr. XXX 3 days, probably 4 days with emissions testing and tuning of the specific map. Now he gets to move to up 100 RPM with a new set of VVT positions and repeat until he reaches the redline... IF the RPM goes from 1000-5000, that a 4000 RPM range taking 40 positions to tune for. That would be 160 days... Then you get to go back tune the tranny, because all that is now controlled by the computer unlike your early EFI's.

Now you could just tinker with the timing of the VVT on a dyno for a few weeks and monitor the emissions, but that is what you are saying the "lesser" tuners do. So from your prospective that is not an option.

Have a map in a full map in a day, doubt it. You also can not just slap a stand alone unit on the engine like you used to because so many parts of the car/truck are run off of and in conjunction with the computer.

OEM's use many engineers operating huge CAD programs to simulate the engine dynamics to predict this kind of stuff. The work a person sitting on a dyno with a computer can do will take months if not years compared to what these programs can do in matter of a few hours. Chances are very few (if any) tuners have the ability to use these programs, or the time to enter the hundreds of parts from the engine into the program, which can take hundreds of hours alone (and far more if you have to go measure each piece then enter it in like a tuner would have to do).

 

yes, and those few people are not working as tuners. They are working at OEM's with vastly superior resources than any tunner could dream of. They also have the advantage if part X doesn't fit their needs, they can just redesign it.

 

No,there are some working as tuners. They do things like EPA certification on alternative fuel conversions,etc.
JL

 

Okay, that maybe true