They don't actually make a supercharger system for the 2011 GT yet. The VVT is the only problem with doing this. I have probably the best two tuners on the planet in my area, and the both have trouble with the 2011. Again, not to say that it cannot be done, just that the VVT is a problem that has yet to be completely worked around. Give a few more months and they surly will come out with a system for the GT.

 

Yes, I'm confusing some stuff... I was think variable valves, cam timing is the next step. That's what happens when you multi-task to much lol

 

If they're having trouble with the 2011 cars,then they don't know what they're doing. There are only 2-3 people on this planet that actually know and understand the control system on the 2011 cars,and none of them live in Tennessee.
JL

 

They just need more dyno time... they'll get it. Although I am surprise someone like Roush doesn't have out yet. They usually get a preproduction model to work things out on.

 

Variable valve timing is not the same as VTEC. The main benefits of VVT are increase low end torque (without hurting top end), increased idle quality with more aggressive cams, and during highway cruising it can retard the exhaust valve timing so the exhaust valves are open well into the intake stroke, creating a self-EGR effect - but not everybody uses that last feature.

VTEC is variable valve lift. The camshaft actually has three different lobe profiles for each set of intake valves. The first lobe is a very mild lobe, and it usually actuates the first intake valve per cylinder. The second lobe is a very aggressive lobe - the second lobe's rocker arm normally "freewheels" - it just sits there doing nothing, just moving up and down not actuating anything. The third lobe actuates the other intake valve, but this lobe has almost no profile at all, just enough to open the valve to prevent fuel from pooling in the intake.

When VTEC engages, the computer will activate a solenoid sending oil pressure to the rocker arms. One of the rocker arms has a piston that will slide though the other two rocket arms per given cylinder and lock them all together. Since the middle VTEC lobe has higher lift and more duration then the other two, the valves will follow only the VTEC lobe. Factor in that since all the rockers are locked together, this means that the second intake valve that was basically doing nothing is also now working.

Since effectively only one valve is opening at below VTEC speeds, the increased air velocity gives you better low end torque, but when VTEC engages you get vastly better breathing increasing top end power. So basically VVT and VTEC both do the same thing, but they are two different ways of going about it. You can actually couple VVT with VTEC to increase the effects even more.

 

Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I was multi-tasking to many things before lunch

Anyway, yes, I am very familiar with VTEC and how it works. Although generally the more aggressive rocker arm is connected to only one other rocker, not both. But there have been several variation through out the years. The other big part of the VTEC is that the valve are different sizes. The one that is opening at low RPM's is usually smaller, helping to create more air velocity at lower RPM's while the secondary one that is associated with the aggressive cam lobe is much bigger and cana ctually slow the air velocity down for several thousand RPM's after is activated, which is better for higher RPM's. Anyway

Yes, the 2 technologies can be combined, and have been in most of the K series engines by Honda, which have been out for some time. Along with them are supercharged and turbo chargers. In fact Honda even turbo charged one variant themselves, then said they would never do that again.

So it can be done with VVT and VTEC. But the control systems are insane and the new 2011 engines probably have some new government related things in place making it harder.

 

What has changed from the 2010 to the 2011 cars?

 

I would definitely argue that they don't know what they are doing. One is the top professional drag racer in his field and the other is one of the most respected dyno tuners in the country. It is not about just aftermarket tuners though, even the supercharger manufacturers are having trouble with the programs on these cars... again, that is why they do not make a system for the 2011 5.0L cammer yet.

 

It all depends on which tune i'm that will determine my EGT's. if i run my HOT tune then i will see 1600*+(peg my guage) in about 1/8 mile. see my truck NEEDS an aftermarket turbo just to stay cool at this point in the game, but when i do get a different turbo i'm going to go big and the rest of the engine will go big as well.

Problem with talking about 30psi V10 truck is that the biggest topic of this thread would go completely out the window at that point. On a gasser IIRC i think you will see around 7% increase in power per pound of boost if all systems are up to the task. that's more increase than a diesel, yes.. BUT if you have a gasser running 30psi you would never be able to tow with it and don't try to tell me you can. it would have a lot of power, but the only use for the power would be going in a straight line with minimal load on it. As soon as you load that much power with a heavy trailer and the turbo spools it would be all over for your driveline. In my experiences with boosted gassers they aren't as calm as diesels can be. they are much more peppy. in other words the power isn't as smooth and the throttle is much more sensative making for less streetability. the problem i will see in my diesel will be trying to prevent smoking everyone on the highway out at stop lights waiting for a 75mm turbo to light...

I think you may be able to tow pretty good with around 5-8psi if you don't dog on it too much. when i tow my boost usually sits around 10-12psi going up good hills staying at steady speeds of 70mph.

 

Roush is one of the prime examples. They had a supercharger prototype for this engine, but could not dial it in properly. That is why there is not a Stage 3 Roush Mustang for the new years as of right now. Again though, as soon as everything is figured out then it will become available. Just too new right now, and has some bugs to work out. Tuning is actually more than just 14.5 a/f ratio all across the board, and when working with an engine that constantly changes things it becomes difficult to do a set tune on. Roush and Dynospeed both have got a TON of roller time trying to figure out this system.

 

Facts are facts. If one does not understand the control system,they cannot make it control the engine properly.
JL

 

If you're talking about just trucks, then yes. But you also have to realize OEM's have a small army of engineers working to make that diesel smooth where as aftermarkets have a guy or 2, 5 at the most working on it. And I don't think I have seen any OEM turbo gas trucks, so pretty much all of them would have to be aftermarket. Additionally an OEM turbos can be made to that specific engine, an aftermarket turbo fitted to a N/A engine has to have compromise since it has to pick from what is on the shelf (i.e. no one will custom make a turbo for a one off project - well few people can afford it).

If you are talking about in general, I will put my turbo Saab up against any diesel for smoothness of power delivery. I rode in a Benz S600 (5.5L V12 twin turbo with 625hp and 745 ft-lb) a month ago that would slaughter any diesel for smoothness.

 

Perhaps the days of just piggy backing the OEM system is are numbered, now they may actually have to remap the entire engine. This will only double the cost of the units...

 

In general for gassers, every 14.7 PSI of boost will double the horsepower. Real world its often sometimes more then that because you'll have a free flowing exhaust, run higher octane fuel, better ignition curves, etc..30 PSI on a V10 would probably be around 1400-1600 HP. A 7.3 making that kind of power would destroy itself too trying to tow anything as well.

 

I think you mean "less" than that. In an ideal world you'll double your power for every 14.7 psi, the real world is never as nice as the ideal world. You are in theory cramming twice as many O2 molecules into the engine for every 14.7 psi of boost. You won't make more power than twice the power with only twice the oxidizer available. You might make more hp if you end up shifting the power band up in the RPM, but you will loose torque.

Yes you may have free flowing exhaust, but you'll be cramming twice as much flow down it, more flow means more resistance. Higher octane gas does not make more power, just lets you advance the timing to make more power, but as you increase boost you'll have to retard the timing or use higher octane fuel to keep the same timing you had pretty much making better fuel a moot point.

Running 30psi you would make a little less than 3 times the N/A power. So 362*3=1086, of course that assumes the impossible. The impossible being you could run 30 psi on a basically stock V10. It would also depend on when you came to full boost, if it was early in the RPM, most of the power would present it's self as torque. If you built the engine for speed, it would be later at higher RPM's and you would have more hp.

Truth is it is a very moot point because to run that kind of boost, you will have to do things like lower the compression, and basically rebuild the entire engine which will reduce power even further.