Gas vs PSD
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
The V10 can tow anything a PSD can.
You can custom tune a PSD cheaper than $385?
The PSD does not last twice as long as the V10.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
It's not much cheaper to buy. I'll give you 10% cheaper.
And when it comes to mileage, everyone knows that the body falls off our powerstrokes before the engine goes, with proper maintenance of course. I know the V10's are known to outlast most gas motors, but they are not known to regularly get 500K if not more. And as far as towing goes, if gas motors tow better, why dont the big rigs have 'em if that's the case?
And when it comes to mileage, everyone knows that the body falls off our powerstrokes before the engine goes, with proper maintenance of course. I know the V10's are known to outlast most gas motors, but they are not known to regularly get 500K if not more. And as far as towing goes, if gas motors tow better, why dont the big rigs have 'em if that's the case?
Larger trucks don't use gas engine because they aren't as efficient. Not because they don't last as long or tow as good. You can make a gas engine last just as long as the toughest of Diesels. You can make a Diesel live as short as the worst of gassers - GM did it with the Oldsmobile 5.7 Diesel.
More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 680
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Okay Bill, here we go. BTW, who started this damn thread anyway?
I'd really like to see some cold, hard facts on the average lifespan of these engines. Anyone?
Yes the 7.3 and 6.0 get better mileage.
The V10 can tow anything a PSD can. With fewer downshifts and better fuel mileage, I would say it does tow better.
You can custom tune a PSD cheaper than $385? please expand on this? what do you mean?
The PSD does not last twice as long as the V10. Okay, not twice as long. But on average they last longer. I remember seeing a some powerstrokes somewhere that had over 800,000 without an engine or tranny rebuild. Ive always heard about over 1,000,000 but never seen it.
Yes,the mod motors ( 4.6,5.4 and 6.8) are known to last that long.
Again, not on average.
Not sure. Maybe the same reason they don't use Power strokes in class 8 trucks?
The V10 can tow anything a PSD can. With fewer downshifts and better fuel mileage, I would say it does tow better.
You can custom tune a PSD cheaper than $385? please expand on this? what do you mean?
The PSD does not last twice as long as the V10. Okay, not twice as long. But on average they last longer. I remember seeing a some powerstrokes somewhere that had over 800,000 without an engine or tranny rebuild. Ive always heard about over 1,000,000 but never seen it.
Yes,the mod motors ( 4.6,5.4 and 6.8) are known to last that long.
Again, not on average.
Not sure. Maybe the same reason they don't use Power strokes in class 8 trucks?
The whole modular series of engines has been known to be a very high mileage engine. There is more then one 4.6/5.4/6.8 running around with close to a million miles. I regularly see them with over 200,000. There is even a 5.4 with over a million on it!
Were these million mile motors the original engine/transmission without a rebuild?
Larger trucks don't use gas engine because they aren't as efficient. Another advantage of a Diesel. Not because they don't last as long or tow as good. You can make a gas engine last just as long as the toughest of Diesels. You can make a Diesel live as short as the worst of gassers - GM did it with the Oldsmobile 5.7 Diesel.
Were these million mile motors the original engine/transmission without a rebuild?
Larger trucks don't use gas engine because they aren't as efficient. Another advantage of a Diesel. Not because they don't last as long or tow as good. You can make a gas engine last just as long as the toughest of Diesels. You can make a Diesel live as short as the worst of gassers - GM did it with the Oldsmobile 5.7 Diesel.
I'd really like to see some cold, hard facts on the average lifespan of these engines. Anyone?
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: CA Bay Area
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Rhode Island
Yes the 7.3 and 6.0 get better mileage.
The V10 can tow anything a PSD can. With fewer downshifts and better fuel mileage, I would say it does tow better.
You can custom tune a PSD cheaper than $385? please expand on this? what do you mean?
The PSD does not last twice as long as the V10. Okay, not twice as long. But on average they last longer. I remember seeing a some powerstrokes somewhere that had over 800,000 without an engine or tranny rebuild. Ive always heard about over 1,000,000 but never seen it.
Yes,the mod motors ( 4.6,5.4 and 6.8) are known to last that long.
Again, not on average.
The V10 can tow anything a PSD can. With fewer downshifts and better fuel mileage, I would say it does tow better.
You can custom tune a PSD cheaper than $385? please expand on this? what do you mean?
The PSD does not last twice as long as the V10. Okay, not twice as long. But on average they last longer. I remember seeing a some powerstrokes somewhere that had over 800,000 without an engine or tranny rebuild. Ive always heard about over 1,000,000 but never seen it.
Yes,the mod motors ( 4.6,5.4 and 6.8) are known to last that long.
Again, not on average.
Where is your proof that on average the PSDs last longer then modular engines, and that on average a modular engine is not capable of at least 500,000 miles.
The V10 is the exact same engine as the 5.4. Same pistons, same rods, same cylinders, same valves, same everything. Only thing different is that the block and heads are slightly longer.
We just took a Crown Vic 4.6 apart in the shop the other day - came out of a Taxi (one of the hardest things on an engine and transmission actually with constant start/stops, etc.)If I recall it had well over 200,000 miles on it. The cylinder bores still had cross hatchings on them, the bottom end was all sludged up and burnt looking too indicating it wasn't taken care of all that well.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Clint, you keep getting on the longevity argument. What basis do you have for this argument?
How many people do you know who have had a modular engine blow or wear out? I can't think of many!
I've seen a few 7.3L threads with internal failure. Mudmaker is one FTE user who comes to mind...punched a hole in a piston around 200,000 miles.
How in the hell do you know that?
How many people do you know who have had a modular engine blow or wear out? I can't think of many!
I've seen a few 7.3L threads with internal failure. Mudmaker is one FTE user who comes to mind...punched a hole in a piston around 200,000 miles.
Originally Posted by bill11012
Yes,the mod motors ( 4.6,5.4 and 6.8) are known to last that long.
Originally Posted by clintusaf
Again, not on average.
More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 680
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Clint, you keep getting on the longevity argument. What basis do you have for this argument?
How many people do you know who have had a modular engine blow or wear out? I can't think of many!
I've seen a few 7.3L threads with internal failure. Mudmaker is one FTE user who comes to mind...punched a hole in a piston around 200,000 miles.
How in the hell do you know that?
How many people do you know who have had a modular engine blow or wear out? I can't think of many!
I've seen a few 7.3L threads with internal failure. Mudmaker is one FTE user who comes to mind...punched a hole in a piston around 200,000 miles.
How in the hell do you know that?
Look, I'm not saying your gassers won't do 500,000, 750,000, or even 1,000,000. as we saw with the 5.4 van. All i'm saying is that Diesels do last longer than gassers on average.
Lets look at some facts:
By it's nature, a diesel engine simply must be built much, much beefier than a gas engine. A gas engine has spark plugs which cause the fuel/air mixture to ignite in the cylinders. A diesel is a compression engine, meaning it squeezes the fuel/air mixture until the mixture builds up enough heat that it ignites on its own, which is a much more powerful explosion inside the cylinder than a gas engine experiences. Hence, in order to handle that extra explosive force, a diesel engine has to be much heavier duty than an equivilant gas engine. This therefore leads to the engine being able to last far longer than a gas engine, assuming proper maintenance is done on it, which of course applies to any engine, regardless of what fuel it uses.
Diesel fuel is classified as an oil - a lubricant.
Gasoline is classified as a solvent. Just think of what that does to the inside of an engine over time.
Diesels do not have an ignition system that needs regular maintenance.
Exhaust systems last longer because diesel fuel exhaust is not as corrosive a gasoline engine exhaust.
I did find some of these facts on the internet, but they are still relevant to our argument. I just needed some help to sound articulate!!
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
I don't tow much of anything. I occasionally pull my neighbors pontoon, until i get my own. But i look at it his way. I didnt pay the extra for the diesel cause i got my truck at a steal. Even if i had, it would have been worth it. With better MPG's, easier towing, cheaper tunability with greater benefits, and last twice as long as a V10, it's diesel every time, hands down.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
This is fun, Clint!
Check my sig. I do NOT own a gas truck. Again you fail to source your argument that they last longer on average.
My F250 has to be built much, much beefier than my wife's CR-V. Can you really state that it will definitely last longer?
Couldn't one also infer that while the engine may be built heavier it's subjected to far more stress during it's lifespan? How is a heavier built engine taking far more punishment necessarily longer lasting? Is a 4R70W in an F150 which sees nothing but highway service going to fail before a much beefier 4R100 which sees regular towing and city driving? I doubt it.
Just what do you think ULSD can do to your injection system if it's not properly treated? What about fuel dilution in the oil? Gas will evaporate out of oil, diesel fuel will not! Also with modern emissions components diesel engines are prone to fuel dilution with regen cycles...you do NOT have this on a gasser!
Nope, they have a much more expensive injection system that is far more complex. A V10 injector is $30, a 7.3L injector is $200+. A V10 COP is $30, how much does an HPOP cost? What about that turbo? Charge air cooler? Fuel/water seperator? EGR cooler? EGR valve? FICM?
Huh? I've seen plenty of exhaust pipes rusted out from road salt...never have seen one eaten from the inside out. Prove it!
Lets look at some facts:
By it's nature, a diesel engine simply must be built much, much beefier than a gas engine. A gas engine has spark plugs which cause the fuel/air mixture to ignite in the cylinders. A diesel is a compression engine, meaning it squeezes the fuel/air mixture until the mixture builds up enough heat that it ignites on its own, which is a much more powerful explosion inside the cylinder than a gas engine experiences. Hence, in order to handle that extra explosive force, a diesel engine has to be much heavier duty than an equivilant gas engine. This therefore leads to the engine being able to last far longer than a gas engine, assuming proper maintenance is done on it, which of course applies to any engine, regardless of what fuel it uses.
By it's nature, a diesel engine simply must be built much, much beefier than a gas engine. A gas engine has spark plugs which cause the fuel/air mixture to ignite in the cylinders. A diesel is a compression engine, meaning it squeezes the fuel/air mixture until the mixture builds up enough heat that it ignites on its own, which is a much more powerful explosion inside the cylinder than a gas engine experiences. Hence, in order to handle that extra explosive force, a diesel engine has to be much heavier duty than an equivilant gas engine. This therefore leads to the engine being able to last far longer than a gas engine, assuming proper maintenance is done on it, which of course applies to any engine, regardless of what fuel it uses.
Couldn't one also infer that while the engine may be built heavier it's subjected to far more stress during it's lifespan? How is a heavier built engine taking far more punishment necessarily longer lasting? Is a 4R70W in an F150 which sees nothing but highway service going to fail before a much beefier 4R100 which sees regular towing and city driving? I doubt it.
Huh? I've seen plenty of exhaust pipes rusted out from road salt...never have seen one eaten from the inside out. Prove it!
More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 680
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Great points Tom. no reason to get belligerent though.
This is fun, Clint!
Check my sig. I do NOT own a gas truck. Again you fail to source your argument that they last longer on average.
Yes, i am aware you own a psd. I don't really feel i need to source it since it is common knowledge.
My F250 has to be built much, much beefier than my wife's CR-V. Can you really state that it will definitely last longer?
I have no doubts that my 7.3(205K) will outlast my wifes honda pilot (45K). but no, i cannot definitely state that mine will last longer than hers. I know for damn sure i'll have it longer. She goes through vehicles like mentrual cycles.
Couldn't one also infer that while the engine may be built heavier it's subjected to far more stress during it's lifespan? How is a heavier built engine taking far more punishment necessarily longer lasting? Is a 4R70W in an F150 which sees nothing but highway service going to fail before a much beefier 4R100 which sees regular towing and city driving? I doubt it.
You may have a valid point here, but these engines are designed to be workhorses.
Just what do you think ULSD can do to your injection system if it's not properly treated? What about fuel dilution in the oil? Gas will evaporate out of oil, diesel fuel will not! Also with modern emissions components diesel engines are prone to fuel dilution with regen cycles...you do NOT have this on a gasser!
Nothing to argue here. The goverment screwed us older deisel owners with the new ULSD. I treat mine regularly with 2-cycle.
Nope, they have a much more expensive injection system that is far more complex. A V10 injector is $30, a 7.3L injector is $200+. A V10 COP is $30, how much does an HPOP cost? What about that turbo? Charge air cooler? Fuel/water seperator? EGR cooler? EGR valve? FICM?
Got me there. I was just stating that it's one less thing to fail, but i see your point that a diesel has a cuople of parts that the gassers do not that could fail.
Huh? I've seen plenty of exhaust pipes rusted out from road salt...never have seen one eaten from the inside out. Prove it!
Check my sig. I do NOT own a gas truck. Again you fail to source your argument that they last longer on average.
Yes, i am aware you own a psd. I don't really feel i need to source it since it is common knowledge.
My F250 has to be built much, much beefier than my wife's CR-V. Can you really state that it will definitely last longer?
I have no doubts that my 7.3(205K) will outlast my wifes honda pilot (45K). but no, i cannot definitely state that mine will last longer than hers. I know for damn sure i'll have it longer. She goes through vehicles like mentrual cycles.
Couldn't one also infer that while the engine may be built heavier it's subjected to far more stress during it's lifespan? How is a heavier built engine taking far more punishment necessarily longer lasting? Is a 4R70W in an F150 which sees nothing but highway service going to fail before a much beefier 4R100 which sees regular towing and city driving? I doubt it.
You may have a valid point here, but these engines are designed to be workhorses.
Just what do you think ULSD can do to your injection system if it's not properly treated? What about fuel dilution in the oil? Gas will evaporate out of oil, diesel fuel will not! Also with modern emissions components diesel engines are prone to fuel dilution with regen cycles...you do NOT have this on a gasser!
Nothing to argue here. The goverment screwed us older deisel owners with the new ULSD. I treat mine regularly with 2-cycle.
Nope, they have a much more expensive injection system that is far more complex. A V10 injector is $30, a 7.3L injector is $200+. A V10 COP is $30, how much does an HPOP cost? What about that turbo? Charge air cooler? Fuel/water seperator? EGR cooler? EGR valve? FICM?
Got me there. I was just stating that it's one less thing to fail, but i see your point that a diesel has a cuople of parts that the gassers do not that could fail.
Huh? I've seen plenty of exhaust pipes rusted out from road salt...never have seen one eaten from the inside out. Prove it!