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Nope...We have not seen those yet. Last Weiand intake we saw was ordered about 2 months ago.
Yes, Gary's manifold got shipped directly to him.
But just to confirm, when we move parts in and out of here, we don't open the boxes to see what the part looks like. Every once in a while we do see a miss-boxed product. Does not happen very often.
Yes, I think the old Weiand intake was better than the Edelbrock.
This is very disappointing.
I have seriously considered having a manifold cast for us. I have been considering more of a single plane since there is nothing out there. But this can changes things.
Well, I guess that answers the question. The Weiand manifolds are now different and, IMHO, not acceptable. Tim, please advise on how I return this and what intake you recommend. My leaning is to the Eddy as I have one in almost new condition, as shown in the pics.
As for the little circles, I've taken a closer look at the head flanges and the circles wiped off. And it doesn't look like there are any impurities showing up in the casting, as I don't see any changes in color or texture.
But, I did find something I'd overlooked - see the pic. Those are tooling marks, probably made on the mill when they were machining the runner openings. I'm not a bona fide machinist, and especially not a CNC machinist (surely the Chinese use Computerized Numeric Control rather than manual machines) but I would have rejected the piece if I were doing the work or inspecting it based on those marks alone. Yes, they will probably seal with a good gasket (or gobs of blue RTV ), but that's not appropriate for a new out-of-the-box part.
Gary, I would be glad you have a good Edelbrock, I would not be surprised if a new one is now also made in China.
As was pointed out, between over regulation, unions and taxes, we are driving manufacturing out of this country. NNS foundry used to be one of the leading makers of yankee dryer shells (what paper is dried on during manufacturing). The EPA shut that down over 30 years ago so we sold the technology to a German company. Our lab metallurgist and one of the foundry supervisors ended up having to go to Germany to teach them how we did it.
Tim called and we've come to the conclusion that Critter got an old-stock, probably US-made, intake and I got one of the first of the Chinese-made manifolds. Obviously there's a serious error in manufacturing of the new ones so Weiand/Holley is going to have to either re-machine or melt down all those castings.
But, Tim says the Weiand design performs better than the Edelbrock, especially with the Trick Flow heads. So he's going to see if he can find another old-stock unit for me. And, he'll arrange for the one I have to be returned.
I think Tim having his own manifolds cast would be a great idea. Probably a little more costly, but at least then he can be in control of who makes them, and maybe come out with an even better intake than what Weiand and Edelbrock can dream.
I think Tim having his own manifolds cast would be a great idea. Probably a little more costly, but at least then he can be in control of who makes them, and maybe come out with an even better intake than what Weiand and Edelbrock can dream.
I agree. And, Tim and I talked about that. Some of his customers go with a single plane Cleveland manifold that requires the adapters to be used on a 400. That not only adds to the cost as the adapters are expensive, but then you have to use two sets of gaskets, which adds to the number of potential failure points.
But Tim could design it such that no adapters were needed on the 400. And, he could include bosses for injectors so it would be easy to use it as an EFI intake.
If you did end up with the Edelbrock intake, have you thought about port-matching? That may make up some of the performance difference. Or, would it be a good idea no matter which intake you use?
If you did end up with the Edelbrock intake, have you thought about port-matching? That may make up some of the performance difference. Or, would it be a good idea no matter which intake you use?
Tim strongly discourages port matching. He says you can easily make it worse instead of better. And, the gasket is usually used as the template and yet there wasn't any science applied in creating the shape used on the gasket. Further, having the intake smaller than the head's port is said to create "reversion" which helps to prevent flow from the head going back I to the intake.
BTW, Janey and I just talked to a young lady at the Farbucks in Utica Square who said you are on a Walmart run in prep for tomorrow's trip. How are you typing???
I dropped the parts off at the machine shop (STK) today. It will probably take a month or so before it is all ready, but I'm not in a hurry.
And, I talked to them about what is needed to run it on the dyno. Turns out they need very little as they have an electric water pump. But, they do need me to bring the exhaust system.
BTW, Janey and I just talked to a young lady at the Farbucks in Utica Square who said you are on a Walmart run in prep for tomorrow's trip. How are you typing???
Lol, by smartphone! Got busy preparing, and forgot to reply yesterday. Well on our way now.
And- good info I've not heard before Re: port matching.
Tim strongly discourages port matching. He says you can easily make it worse instead of better. And, the gasket is usually used as the template and yet there wasn't any science applied in creating the shape used on the gasket. Further, having the intake smaller than the head's port is said to create "reversion" which helps to prevent flow from the head going back I to the intake.
Interesting,
So instead of chasing laminar flow through the manifold/head junction, Tim recommends a step up across the faces, which is far better than a step down but it does introduce an eddy current off the back of the smaller diameter.
But at the end of the day, Tim makes his living doing this so I'm happy to take his advice on board
I know reversion as the pressure waves coming back out the intake tract, maybe Tim said prevent reversion. If so that makes sense as the eddy currents might cancel out / block the pressure waves coming back up.
Interesting,
So instead of chasing laminar flow through the manifold/head junction, Tim recommends a step up across the faces, which is far better than a step down but it does introduce an eddy current off the back of the smaller diameter.
But at the end of the day, Tim makes his living doing this so I'm happy to take his advice on board
I know reversion as the pressure waves coming back out the intake tract, maybe Tim said prevent reversion. If so that makes sense as the eddy currents might cancel out / block the pressure waves coming back up.
My guess is that Tim was talking about situations where there are significant differences between the intake and the head, such as with the Eddy intake and TFS heads. The Eddy's ports are rectangular and the TFS ports are oval. So it would take significant porting to match up and problems could easily be introduced.
An increase of port cross section just to 'gasket match' the head and intake will reduce velocity and you can forget about laminar flow.
Better to keep velocity up within the port.
Even with the mismatch, an eddy -unto itself- is just a dead spot in the port with most/all of the charge shooting right on past.
Charge inertia is key to VE.
A giant single plane intake in a drag vehicle would have ports tapering down all the way to the valve seats.
Since it's not a perfect world, you take what you can get without a lot of Devcon and untold hours at the flowbench.
Hey Jim! Glad to see you. What'cha think of my Weiand intake? (Go back one page to my post there.)
But, Tim called today and said he's talked to Weiand about the problem. They seemed unaware their manifolds are useless. And he's found several of them in a warehouse and has gotten their attention about the issue. They are supposed to be checking to see if any of them are the US-made ones. He needs at least two as someone else has ordered one as well as my replacement. And, he would like to stock up to ensure his customers can get them.
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), but that's not appropriate for a new out-of-the-box part. 
(Go back one page to my post there.)