They were working on some image resizer stuff last night, I'll bet that's why...

 

Gary take a look at how the 460 Saginaw/AC compressor mounts work.
The compressor slides on a 'shelf' that is part of the PS pump mount itself.

I know this means it's high, but it is an 'all in one' solution.

 

Something was down as no matter how I tried to get in I eventually got the same error. Even clicking the postcard button did the same thing. But surely it was just a hardware outage as they wouldn't take something down in prime time for maintenance.

 

Jim - I'll look in the catalog to see how it was done on the vans, but I'm not aware of pictures of that arrangement. I don't think Luke's truck has AC so they don't help. Do you have AC?

What I'm going to look at today is the mounting position of the various pumps with respect to some reference point. And, see how much room there is on Rusty between his pump and the frame. All of that will be to figure out if I can move the pump outboard a bit and use one of the AC bracket's holes to the head as the position for the pivot. If that will work I'll see what that does to pulley alignment, and if I can work that out I'll figure out what it will take to make a bracket go from the water pump to the PS pump. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

 

I know what it looks like, but I don't have AC.
I considered cutting one of those mounts down until Bill found me a Non-AC Saginaw bracket in his favorite junkyard.

 

Gary I saw what Jim is talking about on an image search last night.

Search for 400 engine with Saginaw pump.

 

Yes, mine does have AC, and yes, the Saginaw bracket I have is an all-in-one PS/AC bracket. Some of my earlier photos might have shown an idler wheel but there is an AC compressor in the truck now (the lines aren't hooked up yet though).

The photo of the bracket in the Bronco Saginaw rebuild thread also has the AC shelf, and his is for a different engine than mine entirely (though I don't actually know what). So it was my impression they all came that way, when you got your bracket that was the first Saginaw bracket I had seen like that.

If you can find an all-in-one bracket for your 400 that would be the best option. I know you want to use a later model AC compressor (can't remember which) but the brackets I have seen are compatible with the FS10 compressor, and potentially some others but I can't be sure.

However, such a bracket may not exist for the 400, since the engine wasn't used in production on later-model vehicles that I know of.

EDIT: On this page you can see the bracket out of the truck and in it. The bare shot shows it upside down but you can see the mounting shelf for the AC. The in-truck shot shows it with an idler wheel in place of the compressor, which I had used a while for testing.

Anyway, that's the 460... not much use for you, but it does show the layout. And yes, the compressor is way high, and yes, I do believe it will interfere with my plans for a dual-snorkel intake.

 

Luke's bracket for the serpentine setup looks far different than the steel ones I had seen when looking for a Saginaw bracket for my truck.

 

I got it from a '91 E-350.

 

... and I was looking for/at a V-belt setup.
Pre '88

 

What is the possibility of mounting the pump on top since it sits high, and putting the a/c underneath?

I saw some vans with the sag pump down low and compressor on top as a one piece unit. They were Windsor engines though.

 

Ok guys, I need your input on this. I think I've found a workable solution, but I want your thoughts.

Apparently the Saginaw & bracket are almost a perfect swap for a C-II from a Windsor in one of these trucks. I say that because it bolts up to the hole I drilled and tapped in the AC bracket when I was thinking of using the cleaner Windsor bracket. Here's a pic of the hole I drilled, as posted a few weeks ago.





And here's the Sag mounted using the Windsor water pump bracket - it bolts right up, with minor issues.




So, what are the issues? Here are the plus and minus issues as I see them:

• Minus:
  • Belt: The alignment of the pulleys may be out 1/16" over the 16" between the crank pulley and PS pulley's centerlines. Also, it will take a slightly shorter belt than stock as that's a stock one in the picture and the pump is in the fully-out position. (In fact, it is up against the AC bracket, but at the same time the clamp bolt hit the end of the travel.)
  • Pivot Bolt: The pivot bolt goes into the hole I drilled and tapped in the cast AC bracket, which is 1/4" thick. That should be enough engagement as the bolt isn't subjected to end loading but is instead just pulled sideways. However, a ham-handed person could strip the bracket out. So, I could weld a nut on the back of the bracket as there is room between it for a shallow nut. But, it is welding cast.........
  • Water pump spacers: The Windsor bracket has to be spaced out away from the water pump by 3/8", but that makes it line up perfectly with the Saginaw bracket's clamp bolt hole. I think I'll tack-weld the spacers to the W bracket.
  • Pivot spacer: The bracket for the Saginaw's pivot bolt is 3/16" recessed vs the clamp bolt. But the Windsor's bracket has those bolts in the same plane. So I'll have to put a 3/16" spacer between the Windsor bracket and the pivot, and would probably tack it to the bracket as well.
  • AC: This mod will not work with the original compressor as it is too long and would hit the tank on the Saginaw. But, that's not an issue for me as I plan to go with a modern rotary compressor, which sits neatly on the stock bracket and will easily clear the Saginaw.
• Plus:
  • Exhaust: The C-II pump's plastic tank is only 3/8" from the front of the exhaust manifold, but the Saginaw's metal tank is 2 1/4" from the exhaust.
  • Height: The Sag sits higher and right beside the AC compressor, so it will be easier to fill. And it will make hose routing easier as with the C-II pump the short distance between the pump and the sector box make it kind of tight.

So, what do you think? Is this clean enough?

 

Guys - I forgot to refresh my browser before posting so missed your comments. Sorry.

Luke - I did assume you don't have AC due to the idler in its place. My bad. But, you are right that the stuff for a 460 probably won't work on my 400.

Kyle - I might be able to completely revise where things go, but with today's work I'm hoping I won't need to.

 

460 brackets might just need a spacer or another hole drilled in the right place. You won't know unless you try it. One thing I am sure of, is that there were a lot more 460's in vans than 335's

 

I would be curious about that as well - or even the Windsor version of the bracket, since your other Windsor bracket was a close fit to begin with. By the way, I looked further into that Bronco thread and the guy there had a 351W, so that answers that. Those should be quite easy to find in a 90s van, maybe even easier than the 460.

But failing all that, or ignoring it, what you have now does look as if it will work with surprisingly little effort.

But that FS6 compressor in the photo isn't what you're planning to use, right? I don't see how it would bolt up. You say the new compressor will easily clear the Saginaw but presumably you have tested that. My apologies for not being able to remember which compressor you were planning to use!