Gas vs PSD
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Say I'm in my mustang. I'm going up a steep hill. I'm in 5th gear I'm slowing way down I put the gas pedal down but I'm getting nothing. No rpms or speed matter of fact I'm fix'n to stall it. The natural forces are stronger than the tq put to ground. So down shifting gives me a leverage advsntage then I can climb. I used my mustang cause our trucks have auto transmissions in them. Now by holding 5th I was using more fuel working harder than I was when I downshifted simply cause all the motor had in that gear wasn't enough. So the mechanical advantage of the tsller gear made the tq and got us up the hill. But dropping gears still is doing more work than the engine was doing before I got to the hill. I really don't see what your saying when you say more rpms is less work from the engine.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
I think everyone could agree if the PSD guys admitted that a v10 CAN pull the same load,
And the v10 guys admit that it will not pull as nice.
Because that right there is the truth. As far as service costs, depreciation, and the like, I have a small business, and if the truck depreciates, costs lots to repair, It's all a write-off on taxes, so at the end of the day, any business using trucks for hauling or commercial use, I'd find it hard to believe they'd choose a gas job when a diesel pulls so much nicer.
And the v10 guys admit that it will not pull as nice.
Because that right there is the truth. As far as service costs, depreciation, and the like, I have a small business, and if the truck depreciates, costs lots to repair, It's all a write-off on taxes, so at the end of the day, any business using trucks for hauling or commercial use, I'd find it hard to believe they'd choose a gas job when a diesel pulls so much nicer.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,392
Likes: 0
From: NW Arkansas
I think everyone could agree if the PSD guys admitted that a v10 CAN pull the same load,
And the v10 guys admit that it will not pull as nice.
Because that right there is the truth. As far as service costs, depreciation, and the like, I have a small business, and if the truck depreciates, costs lots to repair, It's all a write-off on taxes, so at the end of the day, any business using trucks for hauling or commercial use, I'd find it hard to believe they'd choose a gas job when a diesel pulls so much nicer.
And the v10 guys admit that it will not pull as nice.
Because that right there is the truth. As far as service costs, depreciation, and the like, I have a small business, and if the truck depreciates, costs lots to repair, It's all a write-off on taxes, so at the end of the day, any business using trucks for hauling or commercial use, I'd find it hard to believe they'd choose a gas job when a diesel pulls so much nicer.
You exactly right. But tell me how many 7.3 guys have scoffed at your 6.4 when it comes to towing. I have had a Ton of guys tell me how there 7.3 will outtow my 6.4. None of them had ever driven a 6.4.
Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. Haha
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 209
Power Strokes don't spit out spark plugs when they're upset.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Is it really? For who? If that engine is turning more rpm to get the load moving, maintain speed, or gain speed its doing more work.
Say I'm in my mustang. I'm going up a steep hill. I'm in 5th gear I'm slowing way down I put the gas pedal down but I'm getting nothing. No rpms or speed matter of fact I'm fix'n to stall it. The natural forces are stronger than the tq put to ground. So down shifting gives me a leverage advsntage then I can climb. I used my mustang cause our trucks have auto transmissions in them. Now by holding 5th I was using more fuel working harder than I was when I downshifted simply cause all the motor had in that gear wasn't enough. So the mechanical advantage of the tsller gear made the tq and got us up the hill. But dropping gears still is doing more work than the engine was doing before I got to the hill. I really don't see what your saying when you say more rpms is less work from the engine.
Say I'm in my mustang. I'm going up a steep hill. I'm in 5th gear I'm slowing way down I put the gas pedal down but I'm getting nothing. No rpms or speed matter of fact I'm fix'n to stall it. The natural forces are stronger than the tq put to ground. So down shifting gives me a leverage advsntage then I can climb. I used my mustang cause our trucks have auto transmissions in them. Now by holding 5th I was using more fuel working harder than I was when I downshifted simply cause all the motor had in that gear wasn't enough. So the mechanical advantage of the tsller gear made the tq and got us up the hill. But dropping gears still is doing more work than the engine was doing before I got to the hill. I really don't see what your saying when you say more rpms is less work from the engine.
JL
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,267
Likes: 5
Decent argument there Johnny, but I wanted to correct 1 thing that I disagree with.
Even non-turbo diesels usually had much more torque than gasoline engines, so they should still be able to remain in the lower RPM's longer.
If there were a v10 6.8 liter N/A diesel, I'm confident the shifting would be less needed than with the gas v10.
Even non-turbo diesels usually had much more torque than gasoline engines, so they should still be able to remain in the lower RPM's longer.
If there were a v10 6.8 liter N/A diesel, I'm confident the shifting would be less needed than with the gas v10.
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Decent argument there Johnny, but I wanted to correct 1 thing that I disagree with.
Even non-turbo diesels usually had much more torque than gasoline engines, so they should still be able to remain in the lower RPM's longer.
If there were a v10 6.8 liter N/A diesel, I'm confident the shifting would be less needed than with the gas v10.
Even non-turbo diesels usually had much more torque than gasoline engines, so they should still be able to remain in the lower RPM's longer.
If there were a v10 6.8 liter N/A diesel, I'm confident the shifting would be less needed than with the gas v10.
JL
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 209
We're back to discussing that load thing again. It's all about VE like IBAdrian was discussing earlier about fuel useage. The PSD has a VE advantage at "towing/cruising" RPM's ONLY because of the turbocharger. NOT because it uses diesel fuel. NOT because it uses compression ignition. It gives the driver a false sense that the vehicle is working "less" simply because they do not see the RPM's change as load increases. In reality, the turbocharger is actually increasing the cylinder pressure and increasing the "work" output of the engine even though the RPM stays the same.
It takes a certain amount of power(work) to keep a load at a certain speed. Saying that a gasoline engine is "weaker" or "working harder" simply because it's accomplishing it's work in a different manner is ignorant. Moving the same load at the same speed takes the SAME amount of work, no matter the powerplant. A turbodiesel accomplishes this via more boost,and a N/A gasoline engine accomplishes this via more RPM.
JL
JL
Hotshot
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 13,484
Likes: 42
From: Stevens Point, WI
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 1
From: Alberta, Canada
That is just a case of having enough traction to move it. A 4.6 gas could have done that. When I used to haul freight we would pull our trucks all the time when they spun out with the bosses 4wd.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Just because and engine is turning more RPM's, DOES NOT mean that it's working harder. We're back to discussing that load thing again. It's all about VE like IBAdrian was discussing earlier about fuel useage. The PSD has a VE advantage at "towing/cruising" RPM's ONLY because of the turbocharger. NOT because it uses diesel fuel. NOT because it uses compression ignition. It gives the driver a false sense that the vehicle is working "less" simply because they do not see the RPM's change as load increases. In reality, the turbocharger is actually increasing the cylinder pressure and increasing the "work" output of the engine even though the RPM stays the same. It takes a certain amount of power(work) to keep a load at a certain speed. Saying that a gasoline engine is "weaker" or "working harder" simply because it's accomplishing it's work in a different manner is ignorant. Moving the same load at the same speed takes the SAME amount of work, no matter the powerplant. A turbodiesel accomplishes this via more boost,and a N/A gasoline engine accomplishes this via more RPM.
JL
JL
Cause its power was at a higher rpm. Never have I said that. If I'm going to say anything the 6.8 is weaker just because it is at any rpm depending on which psd your comparing. Its 110 ftlbs weaker than the 6.0l and 200 less than the 6.4.
Now I didn't say the 6.8 didn't have enough tq to move the load. You keep forgetting I'm not bashing on the gassers.
I'm not comparing the 6.8 to the 6.0. I'm comparing the 6.8 to the 6.8. When I say the 6.8 is working harder when yoy raise it rpms. I would say thst a psd turning 1800 rpms and a 6.8 turning 3400 rpms would be putting close to the same tq to the ground. We've established that these 2 engines work different. I'm just saying your not replacing fuel w/ programming by putting in taller gears and/or raising rpms.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 336
Likes: 1
Never seen a V10 with a blown head gasket. I've owned a 6.0 that has had the engine replaced three times before 37k.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 336
Likes: 1
Yeah, they just spit turbos, engines, head gaskets, egr coolers, injectors and your kids college funds when you have to repair it.