Gas vs PSD
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Bad side is that new generation diesels never get warm in cold climates and need to be equipped with additional furnaces for comfort and engine warming.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Sorry for having to do it this way. Can't get my scanner to work w/ vista or win7 even after downloading drivers. Anyway I was wrong about the $56. It was $53.88 so total it was $58.73. So how big of a myth is $60 when your within $1.27 of the stated price. Who in here wouldn't have said $60 also?
Last edited by exiled; May 17, 2011 at 12:25 PM. Reason: wrong picture.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Any links to back it up?
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
It is well know fact, that the gasoline engines waste lot of fuel at idle and lower loads, while diesels can idle for hours on cup of fuel.
Bad side is that new generation diesels never get warm in cold climates and need to be equipped with additional furnaces for comfort and engine warming.
Bad side is that new generation diesels never get warm in cold climates and need to be equipped with additional furnaces for comfort and engine warming.
That's the electrical equivalent load of a 134 HP motor.
JL
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
It should be said that gas uses 1/3 more not the diesel uses 1/3 of the total use.
I know where your going on the difference between lp and protrolium gas. I know so I'm asking whatcha think. If lp burns at a higher rate to do the same job what's the point of haveing it? Does the price off set it or something. Over at the feedmill they use lp in the forklifts. I thought they did it cause it lasted longer "went further".
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 2
From: CA Bay Area
Propane in forklift is used mainly for clean air. You'd not last long in closed warehouse with one powered by gasoline engine. 
In stand by generators propane is used for long storage life as it can sit for decades without loosing anything.
With propane there is more to consumption than lower energy. Per my recollection propane has only few % less energy, but the main difference is that those engines are gasoline engines converted to propane. Some of those systems are at "home made" level, some are bit better, but they are far away from efficiency of computerized FI on gasoline engines.
In stand by generators propane is used for long storage life as it can sit for decades without loosing anything.
With propane there is more to consumption than lower energy. Per my recollection propane has only few % less energy, but the main difference is that those engines are gasoline engines converted to propane. Some of those systems are at "home made" level, some are bit better, but they are far away from efficiency of computerized FI on gasoline engines.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
That's the kind generator I have. I'm glad you posted these numbers. Its what I was thinking, but had the numbers reversed even though I I understood the consuption.
It should be said that gas uses 1/3 more not the diesel uses 1/3 of the total use.
I know where your going on the difference between lp and protrolium gas. I know so I'm asking whatcha think. If lp burns at a higher rate to do the same job what's the point of haveing it? Does the price off set it or something. Over at the feedmill they use lp in the forklifts. I thought they did it cause it lasted longer "went further".
It should be said that gas uses 1/3 more not the diesel uses 1/3 of the total use.
I know where your going on the difference between lp and protrolium gas. I know so I'm asking whatcha think. If lp burns at a higher rate to do the same job what's the point of haveing it? Does the price off set it or something. Over at the feedmill they use lp in the forklifts. I thought they did it cause it lasted longer "went further".
LP=91,300 BTU/gal
Gasoline=125,000 BTU/gal
Diesel=138,700 BTU/gal
Nat Gas=90,800 BTU/gal
JL
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
No, because once they sell they take them down. Craigs list does not alllow you to mark something as sold and leqve it up because it clutters the listings up.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Around here trucks of any kind that's clean and has the right price on it sales pretty quick. Around the house is a few guys that goes to auto auctions and buys cars to sale in their yard. They seem to do pretty good. I've noticed that before gas prices around here really start going up they have a lot of trucks to sale and when the price goes down they do more cars. I kinda think that the trucks are coming in from states that has already raised the gas prices and the trucks whete traded in.
N Al. Has always had a strong market for trucks.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 684
Likes: 1
I have not read this whole thread 700+ pages.
But atleast when it comes to fuel consumption I have compared my old truck to my new. No the old truck is not a v10, but it can give a picture of the gas v deisel argument.
1996 f150 5.0 5spd 4x4 standard cab pulled a motorcycle trailer about 3-4 times, other than that very light loads.
My new truck 2001 f350 (much larger than the 1/2 ton truck) ext cab 8 ft bed 7.3 w/ 6spd 4x4. I have pulled cars and TRUCKS on a full sized 20+ foot car hauler alot.
fuel consumption results
f150 averaged 2 years ago 11.66 mpg and $0.26 per mile with gas anywhere from
$2.44-$2.88 per gal.
F350 averaging 14.43 miles per gal. and $0.30 per mile with fuel at 3.98-$4.25 per gal, and around here gas is running about 15 cents less the deisel. those # are pretty consistant weather I am towing or not, were the gas engine would drop when I had the little bike trailer on it.
So I would have to say my vote is with the deisels.
p.s. I have noticed my mpg coming up last few fill ups since I got the turbo working. So I am expecting the cost per mile to level out around $0.20-$0.30 with in the next few months.
But atleast when it comes to fuel consumption I have compared my old truck to my new. No the old truck is not a v10, but it can give a picture of the gas v deisel argument.
1996 f150 5.0 5spd 4x4 standard cab pulled a motorcycle trailer about 3-4 times, other than that very light loads.
My new truck 2001 f350 (much larger than the 1/2 ton truck) ext cab 8 ft bed 7.3 w/ 6spd 4x4. I have pulled cars and TRUCKS on a full sized 20+ foot car hauler alot.
fuel consumption results
f150 averaged 2 years ago 11.66 mpg and $0.26 per mile with gas anywhere from
$2.44-$2.88 per gal.
F350 averaging 14.43 miles per gal. and $0.30 per mile with fuel at 3.98-$4.25 per gal, and around here gas is running about 15 cents less the deisel. those # are pretty consistant weather I am towing or not, were the gas engine would drop when I had the little bike trailer on it.
So I would have to say my vote is with the deisels.
p.s. I have noticed my mpg coming up last few fill ups since I got the turbo working. So I am expecting the cost per mile to level out around $0.20-$0.30 with in the next few months.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,775
Likes: 443
The Dodge V10 is a very diffrent engine than the Ford V10, and its not junk.
What makes you say that?
if you included the rest of my quote, rather than remove a small piece to comment on, the context would be clear as to why i referred to the dodge v10. . .and it had nothing to do with a comparison of motor design. . .
that bein said, to answer your question about why the dodge v10 is junk, it gets awful mileage, is a slug, and is expensive to buy parts for. there were good reasons they stopped making them . . (no we are not talkin about viper motors here, obviously), 1)they were junk. 2) the "other option" for 3/4-1 ton trucks was a p-pump'd cummins (most reliable motor ever put into a pickup truck). there was no longer enough appeal for a v10 to continue production.
So a link to somebody that has a million miles is worthless ( becuase afterall, a gas motor just can't do that), but you come up with some story about a buddy with four trucks over that and we should take it as fact?
hell no you arent supposed to take it as fact, but i KNOW this guy and have SEEN his trucks. all you gotta do is go to your local towing companies and just see how many trucks they have at/near/over a million miles, it is very common. dont take my word for it, go confirm what i say to be true. . . .
And as far as class 8 truck engines and 2-3 million miles go, you know they are nothing like a light truck engine such as a 7.3 or 5.9 cummins, right? you do know that the 5.9 put in the trucks is the exact design of its larger brothers . . . .oops guess ya didnt
The V10 would not use 3 times the fuel at peak HP. If it did I would get much lower MPGs than I do. and how often are you at the rpm for peak hp? 1) diesel motors peak power is made @ 1/2 the rpm of your truck gasser. . .2) diesels have much higher thermal efficiency than gassers. . .
"The Diesel cycle is less efficient than the Otto cycle when using the same compression ratio. However, practical Diesel engines are 30% - 35% more efficient than gasoline engines.<SUP id=cite_ref-FEG_3-0 class=reference>[4]</SUP> This is because, since the fuel is not introduced to the combustion chamber until it required to ignite, the compression ratio is not limited by the need to avoid knocking, so higher ratios are used than in spark ignition engines." <----this doesnt even account for the much higher injection pressures (better atomization) of the diesel.
all hailed wikipedia link to above quote on thermal efficiency
so, with 1/2 the rpm for peak power, and being 30-35% more thermal efficient than gassers, we're lookin at an average of 1.5-2x better mpg. with that bein an average, i dont see why it would be so shocking that the gasser could burn 3x more gas at rpm that it generally never sees unless the driver wants the motor to be there. . .and of course it would be much more in a similar sized drag racing motor that sees peak hp rpm @ 3-4x that of what the diesel would see. . . .
What makes you say that?
if you included the rest of my quote, rather than remove a small piece to comment on, the context would be clear as to why i referred to the dodge v10. . .and it had nothing to do with a comparison of motor design. . .
that bein said, to answer your question about why the dodge v10 is junk, it gets awful mileage, is a slug, and is expensive to buy parts for. there were good reasons they stopped making them . . (no we are not talkin about viper motors here, obviously), 1)they were junk. 2) the "other option" for 3/4-1 ton trucks was a p-pump'd cummins (most reliable motor ever put into a pickup truck). there was no longer enough appeal for a v10 to continue production.
So a link to somebody that has a million miles is worthless ( becuase afterall, a gas motor just can't do that), but you come up with some story about a buddy with four trucks over that and we should take it as fact?
hell no you arent supposed to take it as fact, but i KNOW this guy and have SEEN his trucks. all you gotta do is go to your local towing companies and just see how many trucks they have at/near/over a million miles, it is very common. dont take my word for it, go confirm what i say to be true. . . .
And as far as class 8 truck engines and 2-3 million miles go, you know they are nothing like a light truck engine such as a 7.3 or 5.9 cummins, right? you do know that the 5.9 put in the trucks is the exact design of its larger brothers . . . .oops guess ya didnt
The V10 would not use 3 times the fuel at peak HP. If it did I would get much lower MPGs than I do. and how often are you at the rpm for peak hp? 1) diesel motors peak power is made @ 1/2 the rpm of your truck gasser. . .2) diesels have much higher thermal efficiency than gassers. . .
"The Diesel cycle is less efficient than the Otto cycle when using the same compression ratio. However, practical Diesel engines are 30% - 35% more efficient than gasoline engines.<SUP id=cite_ref-FEG_3-0 class=reference>[4]</SUP> This is because, since the fuel is not introduced to the combustion chamber until it required to ignite, the compression ratio is not limited by the need to avoid knocking, so higher ratios are used than in spark ignition engines." <----this doesnt even account for the much higher injection pressures (better atomization) of the diesel.
all hailed wikipedia link to above quote on thermal efficiency
so, with 1/2 the rpm for peak power, and being 30-35% more thermal efficient than gassers, we're lookin at an average of 1.5-2x better mpg. with that bein an average, i dont see why it would be so shocking that the gasser could burn 3x more gas at rpm that it generally never sees unless the driver wants the motor to be there. . .and of course it would be much more in a similar sized drag racing motor that sees peak hp rpm @ 3-4x that of what the diesel would see. . . .
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,775
Likes: 443
are you incinuating that all of my posts have been "catastrophes"? i already invited you to specifically cite my "wrong propoganda" rather than "make comments that add absolutely nothing to the discussion" which has been deemed forbidden. i already invited you to cite some of my propoganda. pick it apart, and prove me wrong. but ya cant. so ya wont 