And that's what it really comes down to. If you're happy with it, that's what counts.

It just rubs me the wrong way when someone questions MY decision and spouts lots of meaningless (to me) "facts".

 

Ford should make a v10 ecoboost.

 

pretty funny.

 

No brother I kept it 1 to 1. Repair cost isn't included.
It depends on who you ask how long the oil last. Most people in the 6.0l section change their oil on 5k mile changes. I change mine on 750 mile. So you adjust for the milage that's $45 for me and $30 or less for the v10. Still a $60 fuelfilter set.
The fuelfilters isn't a joke if you take the time to learn how this system works. Oil under pressure is used to inject the fuel so you need volume of oil. And the injectors need clean water free fuel to survive. Diesel is just a total different fuel sorce so it has a different system of burning the fuel. If you ever tries to burn a wood pile with diesel you can start to see what I mean. Diesel has a lot higher flash point than gas and can get pretty aggravating to light with just a match. What we do around here is add somenkindnof ligher fluid to the diesel to lower the flash point. I like 1gal of gas to 4 gal of diesel fuel. Of course this is when gas was around $2. Now would be cheaper to burn a square bale of hay to get the fuel started.
The thing about it is there's no real advantage to either the v10 or psd for everone and situation. I know the 6.0 not sure about the 7.3 or newer psds don't like to be ideled. Causes havoc on the egr system. I don't know if a delete fixes that. I have heard about water building on top of the pistons. Again I dontbknow how true it is. The new psds is known to lot rot. So I don't think the psd is suited for part time duty. I think the v10 is better suited for that. The expence game is just a matter of how you run your busness. The psd is not going to be cheaper to operate. But if fuel remains less than .50 more than gas you can off set some your cost. Fuel costing more than .50 more than gas and it really starts to eat you alive. The psd just isn't suited for being a toy if money matters. A diesel is to work. Point blank. The diesel is just going to put more tq to the ground in a work enviroment and for us that depends on that has gone w/ the diesel. Its just that simple.

 

i wasnt including any emission equipped diesels in my comparison. . .i already said the emission equipped diesels are pointless to purchase. . .all of the perks (i.e. long oil changing intervals, fuel mileage, and engine longevity) are negated by emission equipment and you basically have an expensive turd that gets low mileage. . . .if you look at the numbers i gave, they are pretty accurate and modest for those who dont have emission equipped motors (ESPECIALLY STOCK), or have deleted the emissions in their new motors. i still dont think an emission equipped diesel, with its more frequent oil change intervals, is "3-5x more expensive" to maintain. . .3-5x is an awful lot. . . .also, im fully aware of the physical and burn attributes/characteristics of gasoline, diesel, and the rest of the fuels. . .

and who says a diesel cant be a toy! a buddy of mine has a 10 sec reg cab 6.0 and is about to hit high 9's (he owns maryland diesel performance). . .sled pullin, drag racin, 4wheelin, etc all have diesels cloudin the sky. hp for dollar is actually pretty high in the diesel world, until you get into upgradin expensive stuff like injection pumps and turbo's. nowadays, 200+ wheel hp from a tuner is common with stock turbos. and hell mine is a toy disguised as a DD/tow rig.

 

A lot of this is true.

I just think v10 owners are being a little too optimistic about their mileage. I've talked to a few people here, and while the v10 mileage is decent for the power it can put down, it is not as great as it is being made out to be.

If you want to go head to head, and put 5.88 gears in the rear, and pull a gigantic loaded trailer up a hill, I think you're looking at about half the mileage of a diesel, if not less.

Every engine has a brake specific fuel rating in Grams per hour, or pounds per hour, at a specific RPM and different loading conditions.

I have not found any so far for say a 6.4 diesel and 6.8 v10 gas, but I'm looking.

From what I've seen on other similar comparisons, a diesel roughly uses almost half of what the same HP has engine uses at peak HP.

I really wish I could find what I'm looking for.

I wasn't joking about the v10 ecoboost. If that could trim the mileage up a tad, and offer 700 HP, who wouldn't want one?

 

well i was more jokin about the idea of makin it a v10, not laughin at ecoboost. in reality, ford is just doing what all companies should have done 30 years ago-made their gassers direct injected and turbo'd. there is no more efficient injection cycle than direct injection (with current injector technology). direct injection can not only be placed in the most optimum spot, but by nature has to be pressurized to a much greater degree, thus increasing atomization potential. and a turbo (properly sized) increases efficiency on any motor by utilizing some of the heat that is expelled through the exhaust (exhaust is tons of completely wasted energy. more energy from the fuel leaves the motor via heat than is actually harnessed to power the drivetrain). all this bein said, direct injection, combined with a turbo, will narrow the efficiency gap between gassers and diesels. the technology has been there for decades. shoulda done it then. . .GM (im sure all the brands have done this) even went as far as creating a compression ignition gasser (high pressure direct injection is used in all new compression ignition app's), which would even further narrow the gap.
GM to unveil cars with diesel-like gas engines - Aug. 24, 2007

if/when companies decide to do this, diesel's advantages will be narrowed down to its slightly greater btu rating vs gas, and perhaps its operating range. (assuming the compressoin ratio in the diesel motor would be much higher than the compression ignition gasser, which would also have to be much higher than the current 87 octane-friendly rating for compression ignition to be possible). now we're talkin about efficient gassers (relatively speaking, no combustion engine in production is efficient). . . .

 

No doubt. I don't know if you learned anything from the thread. I sure have. I don't know what facts to you was meaningless. I've enjoyed all the facts. None has brought me to question my dicussion. I hope noone got the feeling I was trying to convence anyone that either was better.
It rubs me wrong when someone makes a point but won't brang any info to support it. I don't mind being wrong. I don't mind showing my math and being corrected when I'm wrong but I'm like the next man I'm not going to just take a mans word for it when it seems he's wrong.

 

The F-650 and F-750 are medium duty trucks. Currently they (2011 MY) they only come with the 6.7l cummins I6. Up until 08' you could get the Cummins or Caterpillar diesel engines in them. CAT decided to leave the on-road engine market around that time so the CATs were dropped from Fords medium duty lineup. The F-450 and F-550 are still light duty trucks and mostly are chassis cab configurations and get the same engines and transmissions the F-250 and F-350 trucks get. Ford did and still does offer an F-450 (with bed) which looks almost identical to the F-350 that came with the 6.4l only between 08' thru 10'. Ford neutered that version of the F-450 for the 11' MY and made it even closer to an F-350.

 

If you limit your comments to the 7.3l then I guess you might have a point. But then Bill and the rest of the gear heads are youbto eat you alive on performnce numbers.
I don't call your buddy's 6.0l a toy. Or at least that's not what I have in mind. I'm talking about the 4x4 that gets lifted and never see the side of the road moreless the off road. A toy and a hobby are 2 different things to me. A toy you build or deck out and your done w/ it you just go show it off. A hobby is, well...... Its never done. You enjoy turning the wrenches so your praying for stuff to break.
You don't like the other psds huh? Well I've put 120k miles on mine and repairs have cost be $100. I haul too much with her. I believe in loading the wagon. I'm getting alittle wiser in my age and try to to be reasonable with my weight. Kinda why I thought about getting a f550. The newers engines are great engines. Your going to have to take care of them though.

 

You do know I was talking about my 04 in general right? I was saying I'm not about to come off of $76,000. For that money I'm very content. Lol

 

nawww its not that i dont like the new psd's in particular, all of the new emission equipped diesels just dont justify the price tag (unless you delete them and keep them for 10 years). its not a design flaw of the motors themselves, but rather the horrific effect of the emissions equipment. without the emissions, they are the most efficient motors (by design) to date (just about every auto maker utilizes the same fuel system design nowadays). of course, the common rail injectors have been suspect since their debut, but for the most part people dont have problems. i would actually buy and drive a 6 spd 6.0 (shocking isnt it?). they are actually just as reliable as the 7.3's once ya delete 'em and stud 'em, and sip less fuel. plus, theres not much that can compare to hoppin in a huge leather-wrapped lariat. . .(although i love the truck feel and ride of the OBS fords, the experience is just different)

i couldnt agree more about lifting a diesel. . .such a bad idea. people dont realize it, but they spend tens of thousands of dollars to drive around in their lifted trucks, just to drive around in somethin they think "looks cool". . .no thanks. ill put the money i save with stock ride height into stuff that really is useful. as for the toy theory, i like goin fast and 4wheelin, both equate to breakin parts (some faster than others dependin on power). i dont like the act of wrenchin, but its a necessary fact of life if you wanna go fast or drive through mud/trails/rocks/etc. unless of course, your pockets are so deep that you dont care about droppin a few grand here and there for someone else to wrench on it. and then theres the trust factor. . .gotta trust the other guy wrenchin. . . .

 

My bad for not checking the inflation. I am so happy with my old diesel motorhome for last years that I lost touch with the market and still remember times when $100k bought Diesel pusher.
So from what you are saying the "cheap, cheap, cheap" motorhomes today cost over 100 grands?
What it takes to buy a good one?

 

I guess it's ok to make up numbers to make your side look good? That is the ONLY way to come up with the 3-5x as much maintenance costs.

I just went through all the ford diesels fuel filter prices and the highest I coudl find of ANY of them was the 6.0 at $47 NOT $60 and honestly I don't change the filter on my 7.3 anymore then the gas motors I run.

As to other maintenance costs. The only diesel specific costs on my truck was my glow plugs. I paid $60 for all 8 and I replaced the glow plug controller at the cost of $34. I have spend other money but htat was by choice modifications (new exhaust system for example) (other stuff is the unit bearings and ball joints, an altenator brakes, fan belt and hoses etc which can be issues no matter which engine your running)

Also I was laughing at the part of a post talking about how diesel absorbs water vs gas.... yeah right. Gas begins to deteriorate immediately after refining. BOTH diesel and gas get water in them but it does NOT come from absorption (with the exception of ethanol blended gas, the alchahol absorbs water) rather it comes from condensation.

Next the gas is a much lighter fuel and evaporates the flammable part of the fuel whereas diesel does not. and lastly gasoline oxidizes at a rate much higher then diesel thus it's actual shelf life is MUCH MUCH lower. (you can store gas in an airtight container with minimal airspace and it will store for years as long as it is NOT an ethanol blend. You can store diesel in the fuel tank for years and still not worry as long as the tank is full so it doesn't get condensation in it.


like i have said earlier and Art just mentioned his truck is right for him, mine is right for me. But dont' blow made up numbers up someplace to justify the V10 claiming it is sssssooooooo much more cost effective to the tuen of 5x as much it is NOT. It's just your choice and if you like it then it's the right choice for you. I would take anyone on and claim that you buy the truck new own it for 10yrs and sell it add ALL the costs up for the entire life then subtract sales price and there won't be a nickles difference in the costs over that time.

Edit: just did a NADA check using my truck as the background vehicle. The V10 owners LOVE to make the point that a diesel costs more to buy. ok but it brings more when you sell it. my truck example the put a clean retail value at $12,600 leaving everything the same just switching to the V10 and it was $9,075 that is a $3525 difference so like i just said it ends up balancing out in the end.

 

propoganda!