Gas vs PSD
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 843
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From: Jessup, PA
Ok, I see, so it's exactly like what Tom said then. It's just that at one point it was at WOT at 3300 rpm and wouldn't downshift. Seems like there was alot more rpms left. Stock programing seems to limit alot in auto mode.
Super Moderator
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 24,308
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From: SW Virginia
Seems that way to me also. I think that's one of the HUGE improvements Ford has made in their automatic transmissions....the addition of the manual shift mode with the ability to lock out certain gears. If the engine has the RPMs available as noted above, it allows the driver to decide. I believe that a lot of Ford's shift strategies over the years have focused more on economy than performance. It appears that they may have found a happy medium now with more fuel efficient and powerful engines, increased up-to-date technology, and more driver control of the automatic transmissions. I also think they had to introduce the manual mode and current features to try to keep some of the manual transmission folks from switching brands since they knew they were going to kill off the manuals.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Likes: 17
From: Melbourne, Ky
Seems that way to me also. I think that's one of the HUGE improvements Ford has made in their automatic transmissions....the addition of the manual shift mode with the ability to lock out certain gears. If the engine has the RPMs available as noted above, it allows the driver to decide. I believe that a lot of Ford's shift strategies over the years have focused more on economy than performance. It appears that they may have found a happy medium now with more fuel efficient and powerful engines, increased up-to-date technology, and more driver control of the automatic transmissions. I also think they had to introduce the manual mode and current features to try to keep some of the manual transmission folks from switching brands since they knew they were going to kill off the manuals.
On a side note,
Hey John, I see you have a new title? When did that happen? And Congrats!
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
Ford has made some improvements in their packages. In my opinion, to really get the full potential out of a diesel engine, you really need about 9 or 10 gears, much like a semi does. Reason is that most diesels turn less RPM's, and they have a narrow RPM range where they are at optimum power range for that particular engine where as a gas engine has a more broader RPM range, thus needing less gears to take advantage of their optimum power range.
On a side note,
Hey John, I see you have a new title? When did that happen? And Congrats!
On a side note,
Hey John, I see you have a new title? When did that happen? And Congrats!
I know it has been argued over and over that in the FTE pulloff, the torque converter locked. But in my mind, the underlying reason is the v10 didn't have the torque to pull it because the tranny was designed for the psd.
So, I think the Torqshift is a great tranny, and I enjoyed it in my 6.0 actually better than my Allison (though the ability to manually select gears is awesome). But it is not designed for the v10 and from the tests I have seen, hinder it.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Just did the math and the only time it can't match speed from 3,300 RPMs in a gear lower is from 3-2 and 2-1. The 4.6L could, due to it's higher redline, but the 5.4L would be stuck at 3,300 RPMs. 3,300 RPMs is just shy of it's 3,500 RPM max torque.
There is no limiting programming going on. It simply won't over-rev.
Here is an argument I made a long time ago in this thread. In my mind, the reason the v10 in the diesel power article I recently posted and the v10 in the FTE pulloff were not able to rev past a certain point is because the Torqshift is designed for the PSD, not the v10.
I know it has been argued over and over that in the FTE pulloff, the torque converter locked. But in my mind, the underlying reason is the v10 didn't have the torque to pull it because the tranny was designed for the psd.
I know it has been argued over and over that in the FTE pulloff, the torque converter locked. But in my mind, the underlying reason is the v10 didn't have the torque to pull it because the tranny was designed for the psd.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
I found this video that may help make your point of some modulars not being able to go over 5k rpm. It's not of a SD, but it may help. 
YouTube - Ram 1500 out-tows the Ford F-150
I don't think the new F150 went past 3900 rpm at WOT. After watching the video, it seems to me that the computer was limiting the F150 to not downshift and go at higher rpms.
The dodge was WOT in 2nd gear (1.50:1) at 4400 rpm.
What you do and everyone else think?
YouTube - Ram 1500 out-tows the Ford F-150
I don't think the new F150 went past 3900 rpm at WOT. After watching the video, it seems to me that the computer was limiting the F150 to not downshift and go at higher rpms.
The dodge was WOT in 2nd gear (1.50:1) at 4400 rpm.
What you do and everyone else think?
The 04 and 05s I know didn't have 6 speed trannies. The pcm limites their revs to 5k. If you want to rev higher higher you need a tuner to raise the limiter. If one would go into the f150 section and research there's a lot of info. 5yrs ago I complained a lot about haveing a 300 hp truck but couldn't use it cause the limiter would knock it off. Down to between 3800-4200. Yes you can accelarate to 5k but can't hold it there.
I'm waiting on my buddy to call and tell me what the rpm range is on his 07 SD v10.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
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(I'm on a slow connection right, now so I haven't watched the video.)
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
Yes, I know the Torqshift wasn't even around then. But the 4R100 is still a PSD tranny mated to the v10, right?
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Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
5yrs ago I complained a lot about haveing a 300 hp truck but couldn't use it cause the limiter would knock it off. Down to between 3800-4200. Yes you can accelarate to 5k but can't hold it there.
I'm waiting on my buddy to call and tell me what the rpm range is on his 07 SD v10.
I'm waiting on my buddy to call and tell me what the rpm range is on his 07 SD v10.
That wasn't the rev limiter "kicking it down," that was the transmission upshifting in order for the truck to keep accelerating. There is some play in the RPM-to-wheel speed relationship due to the torque converter, but there is a point where the engine stops revving higher due to the rev limiter and the truck will stop accelerating because the engine speed and wheel speed are matched.
To keep accelerating the transmission has to select the next higher gear, which will cause the engine to again match wheel speed in the higher gear and pull the RPMs down to make this work. It's not the rev limiter, it's the concept of shifting gears.
To demonstrate this place the transmission in your truck in "1" and put your foot on the floor. The engine will rev to redline and hold it there, but there will be no more acceleration. Once at redline, move the shifter to "2," and the truck will buck and start accelerating again. Would you like me to post a video to demonstrate?
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
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I'm thinking this is where we are having the misunderstanding.
That wasn't the rev limiter "kicking it down," that was the transmission upshifting in order for the truck to keep accelerating. There is some play in the RPM-to-wheel speed relationship due to the torque converter, but there is a point where the engine stops revving higher due to the rev limiter and the truck will stop accelerating because the engine speed and wheel speed are matched.
To keep accelerating the transmission has to select the next higher gear, which will cause the engine to again match wheel speed in the higher gear and pull the RPMs down to make this work. It's not the rev limiter, it's the concept of shifting gears.
To demonstrate this place the transmission in your truck in "1" and put your foot on the floor. The engine will rev to redline and hold it there, but there will be no more acceleration. Once at redline, move the shifter to "2," and the truck will buck and start accelerating again. Would you like me to post a video to demonstrate?
That wasn't the rev limiter "kicking it down," that was the transmission upshifting in order for the truck to keep accelerating. There is some play in the RPM-to-wheel speed relationship due to the torque converter, but there is a point where the engine stops revving higher due to the rev limiter and the truck will stop accelerating because the engine speed and wheel speed are matched.
To keep accelerating the transmission has to select the next higher gear, which will cause the engine to again match wheel speed in the higher gear and pull the RPMs down to make this work. It's not the rev limiter, it's the concept of shifting gears.
To demonstrate this place the transmission in your truck in "1" and put your foot on the floor. The engine will rev to redline and hold it there, but there will be no more acceleration. Once at redline, move the shifter to "2," and the truck will buck and start accelerating again. Would you like me to post a video to demonstrate?
I know when gear shifts. I'm talking in final drive.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Kingsland, GA
I had a 5.7L 1500 and I approve this comment.
Cargo Master
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Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
I took two vids, they are uploading now...
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Here's the first one I did. Holding redline in each gear up through 3rd:
YouTube - VID 20101205 133456
And here's a full-power acceleration. Traction control cut power as the wheels started to spin, but otherwise it's a good example.
YouTube - VID 20101205 133557
On a PSD it shifts well before redline to make the maximum power possible; holding redline in "M" mode demonstrates no programmed limits are present.
YouTube - VID 20101205 133456
And here's a full-power acceleration. Traction control cut power as the wheels started to spin, but otherwise it's a good example.
YouTube - VID 20101205 133557
On a PSD it shifts well before redline to make the maximum power possible; holding redline in "M" mode demonstrates no programmed limits are present.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
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From: Texas
The E4OD was first made in 87.
So the gearing was made for the IDIs and 460, not the modular or the PSD.