Gas vs PSD
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
I haul w/ a diesel and don't see what your saying. My EGT go up when I go up a hill wiether fuel is added or not. When I tested the 3rd gear driving all day I had 3700-4200 rpms 1100-1200 EGTs. I haven't hurd or read anywhere where you lower your EGTs by down shifting. I've always backed off. I can see wot up hill at 4k rpms causeing high EGTs.
This being said how. Long can you hold out at 1300*? If EGTs doest back you off the trans mission temps will. I got 190* in no time when I was empty holding in 3rd. I would hate to see what would happen if loaded.
I'm going to research this. And as it always does this just may end up me trying stuff out on the road. I will be willing to post my findings if yall would like me to.
This being said how. Long can you hold out at 1300*? If EGTs doest back you off the trans mission temps will. I got 190* in no time when I was empty holding in 3rd. I would hate to see what would happen if loaded.
I'm going to research this. And as it always does this just may end up me trying stuff out on the road. I will be willing to post my findings if yall would like me to.
Tranny temp of 190 is nothing they are built to handle 230 easy.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
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From: Long Island USA
Funny how we all get lumped into one big pile
Cargo Master
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I know it sounds contrary to logic, but if you have a pyro you will see what I mean. Egts are a function of the amount of fuel, not rpms, which you kind of say in your post, yes at wot no matter the rpms, egts will be high. So when entering a mountain pass loaded, I make sure to downshift early, if I held 5th for a long time, my egts and coolant would get hotter a lot quicker than if I shift to 4th at the bottom of the hill. I don't have a pyro in my duramax, but its the exact same thing except from 6th to 5th.
Am I missing something? If you add rpms without more fuel your slowing down. Lossing momentum. Hence downshift raises rpm, but at the same throtttle position you will slow down. So I think your statement might be alittle play on words. Your not going maintain rpms if you downshift and not add fuel espeacialy up hill loaded. Not going to happen. Your going to lose momentum, and then rpms. You hit the throTtle and the rpms jump back up and then so does the EGTs.
Tranny temp of 190 is nothing they are built to handle 230 easy.
Am I missing something? If you add rpms without more fuel your slowing down. Lossing momentum. Hence downshift raises rpm, but at the same throtttle position you will slow down. So I think your statement might be alittle play on words. Your not going maintain rpms if you downshift and not add fuel espeacialy up hill loaded. Not going to happen. Your going to lose momentum, and then rpms. You hit the throTtle and the rpms jump back up and then so does the EGTs.
Tranny temp of 190 is nothing they are built to handle 230 easy.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Spokane, WA
Aight let's think this through. I was empty on flat ground, locked in 3rd. My selector was in 3rd. I kept my rpms high as I could stand. This was at the most 5 minutes. My tranny temps had already reached 190*. I would not doubt that loaded in 3rd gear @ wot the tranny would reach 230* for the rest of the climb and if you was in hilly area you would be in trouble.
And I have seen the torqshift get to 200 doing nothing but sitting in traffic for three hours, got a pic to prove it.
Hook it, I'll pull it.
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From: Grand Lake, La.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Spokane, WA
No response on the egt issue?
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 882
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From: Ohio
Maybe, but no response from the other trench yet. I don't expect anyone to concede anything. I'm guessing a handful of yeah buts, I never saids, and some verbal dancing and not much else.
Kind of funny though, a bunch of grown men (?) going...
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Just a reminder. A certain someone claimed that a V10 would run 5000rpm for 20 minutes no problem, and then promptly blew one up trying to do it. ( 
) I'm assuming this person had enough confidence in the engine to give a go in the first place, but after failure is giving excuses for it's failure. Ok, maintenance history noted and accepted.
If I recall there is still a V10 in the stable. One with a much better maintenance history. Now that preliminary testing is over when is the money run? IOW, back up your statement.
I know what a certain someone else would say. Run your PSD at redline along side me and I"ll do it. Thing is I don't recall anyone saying that the PSD would run at redline all day long, only that it wouldn't need to. The V10 camp though HAS made the claim that the gasser will crank 5k ad infinitum.
Personally I wouldn't run ANYthing at or near it's redline for any period of time what-so-ever. There's no way the ol' reliability / longevity graph doesn't take a serious nose dive under those conditions. There are miles, and then there are hard miles, and overall I believe one engine holds up a bit better.
And so......
.
.
.
.
) I'm assuming this person had enough confidence in the engine to give a go in the first place, but after failure is giving excuses for it's failure. Ok, maintenance history noted and accepted.If I recall there is still a V10 in the stable. One with a much better maintenance history. Now that preliminary testing is over when is the money run? IOW, back up your statement.
I know what a certain someone else would say. Run your PSD at redline along side me and I"ll do it. Thing is I don't recall anyone saying that the PSD would run at redline all day long, only that it wouldn't need to. The V10 camp though HAS made the claim that the gasser will crank 5k ad infinitum.
Personally I wouldn't run ANYthing at or near it's redline for any period of time what-so-ever. There's no way the ol' reliability / longevity graph doesn't take a serious nose dive under those conditions. There are miles, and then there are hard miles, and overall I believe one engine holds up a bit better.
And so......
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.
.
.
The other V10 has no tach or I would.
It upshifts at 4600, its the older less powerfull Non-PI V10.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Never said that. I said, there are certain instances where it's POSSIBLE, and some people have actually proved it. Look at Johnny's videos for an example of that and all the hemming-and-hawing afterwards.
An excerpt from what I was saying:
"I would NOT try to pass anyone while doing it unless it was a semi at 80K struggling to get up the hill at 30MPH. But it wouldn't take 20 minutes to do so anyway. And, I would NOT run it like that with no load on it.
Do it with a STOCK diesel, and the EGTs will make you back off before that 20 minutes is up"
I meant under load. Not on flat ground. Maybe it came out wrong
But I digress.
Please stop lumping ME in with the rest of the people here who say "mine will outpull yours". I have consistently been very conservative on what I say.
However, I won't back off the idea that a V10 CAN outperform a PSD in certain situations. It's possible. It's been proven.
You can look at the evidence and accept it, or not. But please, stop trying to corner me into saying something I haven't
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 685
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From: Spokane, WA
I am very careful about what I say Never said that.
I said, there are certain instances where it's POSSIBLE, and some people have actually proved it. Look at Johnny's videos for an example of that and all the hemming-and-hawing afterwards.
An excerpt from what I was saying:
"I would NOT try to pass anyone while doing it unless it was a semi at 80K struggling to get up the hill at 30MPH. But it wouldn't take 20 minutes to do so anyway. And, I would NOT run it like that with no load on it.
Do it with a STOCK diesel, and the EGTs will make you back off before that 20 minutes is up"
I meant under load. Not on flat ground. Maybe it came out wrong
But I digress.
Please stop lumping ME in with the rest of the people here who say "mine will outpull yours". I have consistently been very conservative on what I say.
However, I won't back off the idea that a V10 CAN outperform a PSD in certain situations. It's possible. It's been proven.
You can look at the evidence and accept it, or not. But please, stop trying to corner me into saying something I haven't
Never said that. I said, there are certain instances where it's POSSIBLE, and some people have actually proved it. Look at Johnny's videos for an example of that and all the hemming-and-hawing afterwards.
An excerpt from what I was saying:
"I would NOT try to pass anyone while doing it unless it was a semi at 80K struggling to get up the hill at 30MPH. But it wouldn't take 20 minutes to do so anyway. And, I would NOT run it like that with no load on it.
Do it with a STOCK diesel, and the EGTs will make you back off before that 20 minutes is up"
I meant under load. Not on flat ground. Maybe it came out wrong
But I digress.
Please stop lumping ME in with the rest of the people here who say "mine will outpull yours". I have consistently been very conservative on what I say.
However, I won't back off the idea that a V10 CAN outperform a PSD in certain situations. It's possible. It's been proven.
You can look at the evidence and accept it, or not. But please, stop trying to corner me into saying something I haven't
Which jonny videos are you referring to? I have seen them all, don't recall the specific one you cite.
And I do agree there may be some instances where a v10 can outpull a psd, though not many and it definetely is not "no matter what, the engine with the higher horsepower wins" that some dudes throw out.
But you are wrong in what you quoted above, other than the 2003/2004 psd with the older stock tune, no recent stock diesel has to worry about egts. Its a fact.
Thread Starter
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Modular motor junkie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 8
From: Texas
Right?
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
Waiting for an answer.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Then you try to explain it away that "The RPM's weren't the problem"....Of course not...And if you'd thrown a rod, you would be saying "But the gaping hole in the side of the block's not the problem"...it was the stuck t-stat or some other lunacy. The RPM's WERE the problem...The oil pump apparently couldn't keep up with THE HIGH RPMS!
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
Have you pulled a mountain pass with a load? Basically egts level out if you keep the same amount of fuel. Tranny goes up then levels out based on the load, and coolant rises, and quickly if you are pulling a heavy load. Then the fan clutch kicks in and dropps coolant temp, while keeping tranny temp in check.
And I have seen the torqshift get to 200 doing nothing but sitting in traffic for three hours, got a pic to prove it.
And I have seen the torqshift get to 200 doing nothing but sitting in traffic for three hours, got a pic to prove it.
Now I'm not saying you will have to back off cause of ur EGTs. I'm just saying they going to get hotter when you load that engine.
We've had em on the run for some 100s of pages now. Let's not waste this on this subject. For 1 I let up around 1100* a few times - seen 1200*. So I have to drop out of the contest I'm not so brave when it comes to pushing EGTs past 1200*. Your in the wrong kind of truck so you can't post evidence. We have a good attack on their 360 hp @5k rpms and that they aren't going to pull that for very long. If I'm right{another statement that hasn't been checked} the rev limiter won't let them keep 5k. I can't prove that yet.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,313
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From: Sunny, Snowy, CO
Yeah...you won't get a response from them...You made WAY too much sense.